UK umbrella offering 80% retention for contract in Belgium UK umbrella offering 80% retention for contract in Belgium
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    Default UK umbrella offering 80% retention for contract in Belgium

    Hi Contractors,

    Got a sugestion to go through an umbrella "The Optimum Pay Group" for a contract in Belgium. They offer 80% retention. Too good to be legal, looks like. The representative from umbrella said it's because of 183 day rule...

    How does that sound to you? Anybody delt with them before?

    It's not a loan, some scheme with high personal allowance I think.
    If I am employed by them, can HMRC hold me liable for taxes they didn't pay though? Looks like this is the key question. They as an employer have full responsibility to pay all the taxes for me, don't they?
    Last edited by gardener; 18th February 2019 at 17:10.

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    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Do you have any information on that umbrella - they don't come up in any web search as "Optimal Pay Group" - can you confirm the name, or get the company registration number?
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    If you're not aware of the loan charge have a look at that.

    Even if not applicable to your situation, the long shot is that the company can lie, cheat and disappear... but you will be liable for anything illegal they do and they will probably not even be pursued by HMRC.

    Companies offering similar promises have ruined the lives of thousands of contractors, so I would avoid if I were you.

    At the very least have a good accountant AND a contract lawyer go through anything they send you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardener View Post
    Hi Contractors,

    Got a sugestion to go through an umbrella "The Optimal Pay Group" for a contract in Belgium. They offer 80% retention. Too good to be legal, looks like. The representative from umbrella said it's because of 183 day rule...

    How does that sound to you? Anybody delt with them before?
    Hi,

    The 183 day rule is not confined to number of days, there are other criteria to meet before the rule can be deemed to apply, including who the economic employer is (who ultimately pays for, and benefits from, your labours).

    If the economic employer has a permanent establishment in Belgium then the 183 day rule is failed.

    Additionally as the 183 day rule applies to remuneration from dependent personal services, and 80% retention sounds more like Limited Company net, then the two are incompatible. You cannot apply the 183 day rule (for income tax) to business profits, dividends etc, they have their own set of rules in the double taxation agreements.

    HTH
    Last edited by Sue at IPAYE; 15th February 2019 at 15:49.

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    Default Good but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bemi View Post
    If you're not aware of the loan charge have a look at that.

    Even if not applicable to your situation, the long shot is that the company can lie, cheat and disappear... but you will be liable for anything illegal they do and they will probably not even be pursued by HMRC.

    Companies offering similar promises have ruined the lives of thousands of contractors, so I would avoid if I were you.

    At the very least have a good accountant AND a contract lawyer go through anything they send you.

    "At the very least have a good accountant AND a contract lawyer go through anything they send you" -are u sure you can trust them too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    Do you have any information on that umbrella - they don't come up in any web search as "Optimal Pay Group" - can you confirm the name, or get the company registration number?
    Sorry, it's Optimum Pay Group w ww.optimumpay.co.uk/ PAYE Umbrella | CIS Payment Solutions Company | Optimum Pay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bemi View Post
    If you're not aware of the loan charge have a look at that.

    Even if not applicable to your situation, the long shot is that the company can lie, cheat and disappear... but you will be liable for anything illegal they do and they will probably not even be pursued by HMRC.

    Companies offering similar promises have ruined the lives of thousands of contractors, so I would avoid if I were you.

    At the very least have a good accountant AND a contract lawyer go through anything they send you.
    It's not a loan, some scheme with high personal allowance I think.
    If I am employed by them, how can I be liable for taxes they didn't pay though? Looks like this is the key question. They as an employer have full responsibility to pay all the taxes for me, don't they?

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    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardener View Post
    It's not a loan, some scheme with high personal allowance I think.
    If I am employed by them, how can I be liable for taxes they didn't pay though? Looks like this is the key question. They as an employer have full responsibility to pay all the taxes for me, don't they?
    It's a scheme. Their address in London is a forwarding house. They are based up in Crewe.

    Their website hides the 80% figure, etc. They are careful not to be caught that way, although they do mention Employer NICs and how they deduct 13.5% for them.
    As for who is responsible to make sure you personally pay all your personal taxes, nope, that's up to you.

    Doesn't matter where you work, but if you are a high earner, your tax returns would have share dividends etc in them.

    It's a scheme. Run away.
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    There are some quite simple checks you can perform.

    1. Look up the company on Companies House website OPTIMUM PAY LTD - Overview (free company information from Companies House)
    It was incorporated in 2017 yet according to the website it has 40 years experience - how does that work? It hasn't even filed a set of accounts yet.

    2. Who works for them? Most reputable firms will have a web section where they show little bios of their staff and directors.

    These two alone would have me running a mile.

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    Don't bother with wasting money trying to check whether a scheme appears too good to be true is too good to be true, I can assure you it is. The only possible alternative would be it being taxed in the UK when you are supplying to a UK based company in Belgium.

    You can't work for more than 5 days in Belgium without taxing your income.

    Believe me....

    If you are going to evade tax you don't need an umbrella company.
    I'm alright Jack

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