Under taxed by my umbrella, now I have a huge tax bill Under taxed by my umbrella, now I have a huge tax bill - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyCrane View Post
    I get that, but my contract with them is based on the expectation that they will fulfil their obligation to “make all appropriate deductions” as set out on their website. They haven’t and therefore I believe it is a breach of contract.
    And they can only work out the tax based on the information given to them.

    Did you give them either a P60 or a P45?
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  2. #22

    Contractor Among Contractors

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyCrane View Post
    They used the wrong tax code and so taxed at 20% not reflecting the total income level.
    Ok, so your tax code is usually, at least in my experience, shown on your payslip. Ignoring, for a moment, how "complex" your payslip is; what tax code were they using, and why didn't this ring alarm bells with you?

    That's not to say that I don't have some sympathy with you, just that there's blame on both sides here.
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    And their name is?
    KUATB!

    He's already said it Contractor Umbrella
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  4. #24

    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMac View Post
    KUATB!

    He's already said it Contractor Umbrella

    Sorry, deleted my already answered post.
    I'm perfect, in a very specific and limited way.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by wattaj View Post
    Ok, so your tax code is usually, at least in my experience, shown on your payslip. Ignoring, for a moment, how "complex" your payslip is; what tax code were they using, and why didn't this ring alarm bells with you?

    That's not to say that I don't have some sympathy with you, just that there's blame on both sides here.
    Even easier than that, if OP gave CU a P45 or P60 the code will be on there, if he didn't then CU will emergency tax him at 20% which it looks like whats happened.
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  6. #26

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    I may be entirely mistaken but, as I understand it, an employer operating PAYE is obliged by law to deduct all employment taxes before paying the employee.

    So the amount you received is what your employer (the umbrella) has calculated as the net amount after all required taxes have been deducted.

    If the employer's NIC paid is incorrect, that is entirely their problem, nothing to do with you.

    If the employee NIC and income tax are incorrect, I also contend that is entirely their problem and it's they who should be paying the missing amounts to HMRC. Unlucky for them but, if tens of thousands of other companies around the UK whose primary function is not running a payroll can manage not to screw up so badly, perhaps the umbrella needs to look at their processes and staff.

    Of course I'm neither an accountant, a tax expert or a lawyer, but if I were in your position I'd speak to someone familiar with taxation law. Perhaps one of the resident and very helpful tax experts can comment?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snooky View Post
    I may be entirely mistaken but, as I understand it, an employer operating PAYE is obliged by law to deduct all employment taxes before paying the employee.

    So the amount you received is what your employer (the umbrella) has calculated as the net amount after all required taxes have been deducted.

    If the employer's NIC paid is incorrect, that is entirely their problem, nothing to do with you.

    If the employee NIC and income tax are incorrect, I also contend that is entirely their problem and it's they who should be paying the missing amounts to HMRC. Unlucky for them but, if tens of thousands of other companies around the UK whose primary function is not running a payroll can manage not to screw up so badly, perhaps the umbrella needs to look at their processes and staff.

    Of course I'm neither an accountant, a tax expert or a lawyer, but if I were in your position I'd speak to someone familiar with taxation law. Perhaps one of the resident and very helpful tax experts can comment?
    The crux of the argument is the information the employer us using make the calculations.

    • If they have been given the right information and made the wrong calculations you could be right
    • If they have been given the wrong information (in the form of a P45 or P60) and made the right calculations based on that information I'm afraid the OP will be responsible
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snooky View Post
    I may be entirely mistaken but, as I understand it, an employer operating PAYE is obliged by law to deduct all employment taxes before paying the employee.

    So the amount you received is what your employer (the umbrella) has calculated as the net amount after all required taxes have been deducted.

    If the employer's NIC paid is incorrect, that is entirely their problem, nothing to do with you.

    If the employee NIC and income tax are incorrect, I also contend that is entirely their problem and it's they who should be paying the missing amounts to HMRC. Unlucky for them but, if tens of thousands of other companies around the UK whose primary function is not running a payroll can manage not to screw up so badly, perhaps the umbrella needs to look at their processes and staff.

    Of course I'm neither an accountant, a tax expert or a lawyer, but if I were in your position I'd speak to someone familiar with taxation law. Perhaps one of the resident and very helpful tax experts can comment?
    The problem is that paying the correct tax is down to the individual. It doesn't matter that you trusted your advisor to tell you the right amounts, it's still your responsibility

    There is a separate argument about recovering that money from whichever advisor made the mistake, if indeed it is that simple, but the OP will have to find the money from somewhere.

    And I suspect CU will not comment publicly until they fully understand what happened.
    Blog? What blog...?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMac View Post
    The crux of the argument is the information the employer us using make the calculations.

    • If they have been given the right information and made the wrong calculations you could be right
    • If they have been given the wrong information (in the form of a P45 or P60) and made the right calculations based on that information I'm afraid the OP will be responsible
    To pick up on a couple of Qs, they were in place before the year end (Jan 18) and had the detail of my 2017/18 position at that point. The problem relates to 2018/19 where they had the whole tax year as the only employer. Again, my point is that they processed all my income for the whole year, they could see what was being paid and that this would exceed the threshold for the code I was on. After three months (or less) they should, as a responsible payroll processor, have noticed that and told me to talk to HMRC about a change of code. HMRC tell me they issued a recovery code via RTI in September 18 but CU say they never got it. I am not an expert, they are. They are not an advisor, they are a professional service provider.

  10. #30

    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyCrane View Post
    To pick up on a couple of Qs, they were in place before the year end (Jan 18) and had the detail of my 2017/18 position at that point. The problem relates to 2018/19 where they had the whole tax year as the only employer. Again, my point is that they processed all my income for the whole year, they could see what was being paid and that this would exceed the threshold for the code I was on. After three months (or less) they should, as a responsible payroll processor, have noticed that and told me to talk to HMRC about a change of code. HMRC tell me they issued a recovery code via RTI in September 18 but CU say they never got it. I am not an expert, they are. They are not an advisor, they are a professional service provider.

    What was your tax code in 2017/18?
    What was it in 2018/19?
    What is it this year?
    I'm perfect, in a very specific and limited way.
    Hands... out infractions
    Face... the music
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