Legally, whose choice is it which Ubrella Company I work with? Legally, whose choice is it which Ubrella Company I work with? - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL4675 View Post
    Hiya

    i'm in talks with an agency and have been told that unless I go with on of the three they work with they "wont take the role offer any further", it was my understanding that it wasnt legitimate for a company to dictate this as they are effectively dicatating who handles your money when there is legislation in place that puts that decision in your court, thats something I've been told before but dont know the exact legislation around that

    either way if i dont pick one of their preferred umbrella companies I can kiss the job goodbye, this kinda sucks in my opinion, what happens to pension payments when moving from one umbrella to another if you have to swtich when moving jobs?
    Regulation 5 - Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003 - The real problem at hand (thanks to the legislator) is that although they can't force you to use their umbrella - even though it sounds like they're doing so - They're welcome to reject your umbrella if it doesn't meet their compliance. So , they may well just tell the end-client you're no longer available or something. Nevertheless, an agency can be put on the backfoot when you, as a contractor, speak up about reg.5 with some assurance. They shouldn't be treating you like this.

  2. #22

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    Get real guys.

    The end client is the source of all the funds in the system and as such calls the shots.

    If they don't like an umbrella or their trusted partner has convinced them that only certain umbrellas are legit, it's game over.

    Your choice is to accept their choice, or walk.
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    First of all, legally speaking, it is entirely YOUR choice which umbrella you use. This is enforced under Reg.5 Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 which states that 'neither an agency or employment business can require a work-seeker to use or pay for another service (i.e - an umbrella company) in order to provide work-finding services'. Also, agencies should be of the understanding that moving you to a new umbrella strips you of whatever employment rights you have accrued in the time you were with them. So, given this happens, immediately question the agency as to why they are trying to move you or just ask them to sign off the compliance of your chosen umbrella regardless. Remember, their entire business thrives on your contracting, so any smart agency will be contractor-led in the way they deal with umbrellas.

    As for FCSA (and other accreditors), although a bit of agency-backed research into PSLs is comforting, it tends to be the way that agencies go with FCSA on their PSLs because it legitimises the list and puts people at ease. That's what makes the FCSA such a fantastic marketing tactic. Sadly, if you type 'FCSA Corporate Governance' into Google and click on the top hit, it speaks volumes. Every board member at the FCSA works for/has shares in an FCSA-accredited umbrella, thus making money out of the market-cornering that the FCSA creates. After Julia Kermode walks, Phil Pluck is elected as the new Chief Executive and guess who votes him in? the board members. So, I agree with you fully - The FCSA is a club which, ultimately, charges the umbrellas it accredits which ends up falling to the contractors who have to pay higher fees per timesheet for an 'FCSA-Approved' Umbrella.

    WHEN LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT UMBRELLA - Do a companies house check, look at who the directors and shareholders are and do a little research on them too. See if they have a registered office on companies house and check out what is said about them online. It doesn't take long and these guys deal with all your pay. It's a big deal and, sadly enough, it's rather poorly regulated by government.

    I didn't set out intending to write an essay - Remember your rights, choose your umbrella wisely and stick by it when an agency can't be arsed to take the time to read through and sign off your umbrella's compliance. ultimately, they want you to fill their jobs so you'll use whichever umbrella you want.
    All good stuff but an agency can still refuse to give you work if you don't use a brolly from their PSL. You'll get something like 'another candidate was offered' or 'the role was withdrawn' as the excuse.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    First of all, legally speaking, it is entirely YOUR choice which umbrella you use. This is enforced under Reg.5 Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 which states that 'neither an agency or employment business can require a work-seeker to use or pay for another service (i.e - an umbrella company) in order to provide work-finding services'.
    True but I think you will find that suddenly no work is available and your face doesn't fit even if your mate is still working and they need 1 extra person

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    Also, agencies should be of the understanding that moving you to a new umbrella strips you of whatever employment rights you have accrued in the time you were with them. So, given this happens, immediately question the agency as to why they are trying to move you or just ask them to sign off the compliance of your chosen umbrella regardless. Remember, their entire business thrives on your contracting, so any smart agency will be contractor-led in the way they deal with umbrellas.
    That is a niche case where the person is currently using the agency's payroll - it's not relevant if the person is getting a new contract with a new agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    As for FCSA (and other accreditors), although a bit of agency-backed research into PSLs is comforting, it tends to be the way that agencies go with FCSA on their PSLs because it legitimises the list and puts people at ease. That's what makes the FCSA such a fantastic marketing tactic. Sadly, if you type 'FCSA Corporate Governance' into Google and click on the top hit, it speaks volumes. Every board member at the FCSA works for/has shares in an FCSA-accredited umbrella, thus making money out of the market-cornering that the FCSA creates. After Julia Kermode walks, Phil Pluck is elected as the new Chief Executive and guess who votes him in? the board members. So, I agree with you fully - The FCSA is a club which, ultimately, charges the umbrellas it accredits which ends up falling to the contractors who have to pay higher fees per timesheet for an 'FCSA-Approved' Umbrella.
    The FCSA is an old mates club - it only exists to act as a comfort blanket for agencies and to stop new umbrellas breaking into the cartel. And I'm not sure how accurate that is given that even the Employment Agency Regulator has published a Key Information document regarding being paid via an umbrella see Providing a 'Key information document' for agency workers: guidance for employment businesses - GOV.UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    WHEN LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT UMBRELLA - Do a companies house check, look at who the directors and shareholders are and do a little research on them too. See if they have a registered office on companies house and check out what is said about them online. It doesn't take long and these guys deal with all your pay.
    That doesn't actually help you - it's actually rather hard to tell who is legitimate and who isn't - witness posters earlier this week when the 1 umbrella that seemed fine turned out to be dubious (and I have reason to believe the poster who says even the final umbrella is dodgy is correct, but not quite enough evidence to confirm just yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    It's a big deal and, sadly enough, it's rather poorly regulated by government.
    That's the only thing you've said so far that is vaguely accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    I didn't set out intending to write an essay - Remember your rights, choose your umbrella wisely and stick by it when an agency can't be arsed to take the time to read through and sign off your umbrella's compliance. ultimately, they want you to fill their jobs so you'll use whichever umbrella you want.
    As this isn't, agencies don't want hassle and if you are awkward there is likely to be a far easier candidate who came second at the interview...
    Last edited by madame SasGuru; 27th August 2020 at 16:15.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Farr View Post
    Regulation 5 - Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003 - The real problem at hand (thanks to the legislator) is that although they can't force you to use their umbrella - even though it sounds like they're doing so - They're welcome to reject your umbrella if it doesn't meet their compliance. So , they may well just tell the end-client you're no longer available or something. Nevertheless, an agency can be put on the backfoot when you, as a contractor, speak up about reg.5 with some assurance. They shouldn't be treating you like this.
    Actually they can the law is clear that an contractor cannot force an agency to use a particular umbrella. And while it's annoying it's actually valid, there are a lot of dodgy umbrella's around and there is a risk that using a dodgy umbrella may come back and cost the agency money.

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