Umbrella for self employed piecework Umbrella for self employed piecework
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  1. #1

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    Default Umbrella for self employed piecework

    I asked my accountant and they dont do umbrella.

    My son will be starting his first job in a couple of weeks.
    its for a company who work grow/harvest trees and produce green wood items.

    the role is self employed and paid on piecework.
    i dont think its ever going to be lots of money, but while training for the first 3 weeks he will be on a flat rate of £80 a day and then transitioning to being paid on piecework.

    Umbrella is going to be the best way forward ?
    or is there some other mechanism in place for this type of work ?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cid View Post
    I asked my accountant and they dont do umbrella.

    My son will be starting his first job in a couple of weeks.
    its for a company who work grow/harvest trees and produce green wood items.

    the role is self employed and paid on piecework.
    i dont think its ever going to be lots of money, but while training for the first 3 weeks he will be on a flat rate of £80 a day and then transitioning to being paid on piecework.

    Umbrella is going to be the best way forward ?
    or is there some other mechanism in place for this type of work ?
    I'm not sure that's actually legal - see Piece work | advice and guidance | Acas and I really don't think any umbrella firm will take the risk - there are so many ways a piece work contract can go wrong resulting in the umbrella being unable to pay the worker.
    Last edited by eek; 13th November 2020 at 08:47.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    I'm not sure that's actually legal -
    Hmmmmmm that's not what i wanted to hear.

    He is really keen on the role, but being a young chap i dont want him to start off on the wrong foot when it comes to taking care of taxes etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cid View Post
    Hmmmmmm that's not what i wanted to hear.

    He is really keen on the role, but being a young chap i dont want him to start off on the wrong foot when it comes to taking care of taxes etc.
    The issue here isn't him avoiding tax - it's the idea that the role is self-employed. Given the basic information you've given me it sounds like he should be an employee not self employed and the use of self employment is (I suspect) because the company is trying to avoid minimum wage issues.

    And it's that reason why I suspect no umbrella will touch piece work because you have to be paid the minimum wage even if production speed doesn't justify it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    The issue here isn't him avoiding tax - it's the idea that the role is self-employed. Given the basic information you've given me it sounds like he should be an employee not self employed and the use of self employment is (I suspect) because the company is trying to avoid minimum wage issues.

    And it's that reason why I suspect no umbrella will touch piece work because you have to be paid the minimum wage even if production speed doesn't justify it.
    Understood and taken onboard.
    not wanting to ignore the issue of workers being exploited as that is obviously a bad thing.

    However it would be his first role out of college and its not really to do with the money.
    i think it would be a very good experience for him to get into the work ethic and also to learn some new skill's etc.
    the company itself seems to be held in high regard and produce high quality products.

    If not an umbrella then would it have to be the full LTD path ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cid View Post
    Understood and taken onboard.
    not wanting to ignore the issue of workers being exploited as that is obviously a bad thing.

    However it would be his first role out of college and its not really to do with the money.
    i think it would be a very good experience for him to get into the work ethic and also to learn some new skill's etc.
    the company itself seems to be held in high regard and produce high quality products.

    If not an umbrella then would it have to be the full LTD path ?
    He could just be self-employed and sort the tax out himself - umbrellas and limited companies are just adding unnecessary complications here.

    Limited companies are only required if the work is coming from an agency or there is liability attached that you wish to limit (remember a bad computer finance system could bankrupt a firm silently so we need protection).

    Entirely separately - what about insurance (public liability)...
    Last edited by eek; 13th November 2020 at 09:25.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    He could just be self-employed and sort the tax out himself - umbrellas and limited companies are just adding unnecessary complications here.

    Limited companies are only required if the work is coming from an agency or there is liability attached that you wish to limit (remember a bad computer finance system could bankrupt a firm silently so we need protection).

    Entirely separately - what about insurance (public liability)...
    Cheers for your input and advice on this matter Eek....
    it is very much appreciated.

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    Kudos for not looking for ways of just pocketing it and ignoring the tax. I'd imagine with that type of work and rate it's more common for people to make it disappear than paying their dues.
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  10. #10

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    He could work as employee of your company, you invoice the end company


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