Help - My Agency are forcing me to go Umbrella from Ltd Company can they do this??

[craig1]

You might, but it rather depends what contract Alllergies has with the end client and what it says about rehiring (or what the client has to pay Allergies if that's what they do). That might block you rather more effectively

It'd probably require a court visit and might be far more trouble than it is worth for both contractor and client but there's a genuine argument that the agency has unilaterally broken the contract with the contractor and frustrated their contract with the client by unreasonably denying them access to previously provided resources.

[Steven@Parasol]

Its not strictly true that Limiteds are out of scope. DBIS did this intentionally to stop dodgy agency forcing their fruit pickers, clearners etc to form limiteds just to dodge the legislation.

just to follow up on Wanderers point, we are seeing some agencies introduce rate benchmarks with respect to AWR.

So any workers they are on less then £10 per hour for example will be asked to go agency PAYE. £11 to £25 workers are being moved to an umbrella so that all the risk is mitigated by the umbrella, anything over £25 per hour for a limited is fine.

This is very much down to the risk profile of the agency. Some agencies are concerned that contractors on lower rates working via their own limited on less than £25 per hour rates are more likely to retrospectively bring a claim against the hirer. Asking them to work via an umbrella mitigates this.

[malvolio]

Its not strictly true that Limiteds are out of scope. DBIS did this intentionally to stop dodgy agency forcing their fruit pickers, clearners etc to form limiteds just to dodge the legislation.

just to follow up on Wanderers point, we are seeing some agencies introduce rate benchmarks with respect to AWR.

So any workers they are on less then £10 per hour for example will be asked to go agency PAYE. £11 to £25 workers are being moved to an umbrella so that all the risk is mitigated by the umbrella, anything over £25 per hour for a limited is fine.

This is very much down to the risk profile of the agency. Some agencies are concerned that contractors on lower rates working via their own limited on less than £25 per hour rates are more likely to retrospectively bring a claim against the hirer. Asking them to work via an umbrella mitigates this.

In which case, why not explain why rather than issue veiled threats and FUD?

[Steven@Parasol]

In which case, why not explain why rather than issue veiled threats and FUD?

Good point and I've no idea!

We've been sending comms out to all our contractors and the majority have been comfortable with the changes to their copntracts of employment. largely because take home pay has not been affected as a result.

[Sockpuppet]

Its not strictly true that Limiteds are out of scope. DBIS did this intentionally to stop dodgy agency forcing their fruit pickers, clearners etc to form limiteds just to dodge the legislation.

just to follow up on Wanderers point, we are seeing some agencies introduce rate benchmarks with respect to AWR.

So any workers they are on less then £10 per hour for example will be asked to go agency PAYE. £11 to £25 workers are being moved to an umbrella so that all the risk is mitigated by the umbrella, anything over £25 per hour for a limited is fine.

This is very much down to the risk profile of the agency. Some agencies are concerned that contractors on lower rates working via their own limited on less than £25 per hour rates are more likely to retrospectively bring a claim against the hirer. Asking them to work via an umbrella mitigates this.

That seems a logical solution. If you're on less than £200 a day then being a contractor probably doesn't stack up being a Ltd anyway.

If you've got a proper business in your own right skill and can command more I don't think you need to be worried.

[malvolio]

That seems a logical solution. If you're on less than £200 a day then being a contractor probably doesn't stack up being a Ltd anyway.

If you've got a proper business in your own right skill and can command more I don't think you need to be worried.

Don't agree that rate is a factor; people use Ltd Cos for many reasons, having to abandon one because someone else thinks it's not sexy enough is a pretty lame reason. And even for IR35 caught Ltds, it's still more efficient than any umbrella solution.

[SunnyInHades]

The umbrellas listed (Parasol, Contractor Umbrella and Paystream) have recently adopted the "Swedish Derogation" opt-out model . Under this scheme 'contractors' who sign up become 'full time' permie employees of the umbrella with pay between assignments (probably minimum wage) and are hence exempt from AWR.

Most who enter contracting usually do so for reasons including...

a) to be paid a shed load of money often and frequently, usually weekly
b) to take time off as and when required between contracts, as the whim takes - could be as extreme as 6 months working, followed by 6 months off, followed by 3 months working
c) to be their own ‘boss’ away from traditional permie practices such as org charts, performace appraisals, hours of working, etc.

I'd be interested to know which Swedish Derogation umbrellas can offer the above (especially b) to their 'contractors' (permies).

Swedish Derogation Umbrella ‘Contractor’ = Permie

[Wanderer]

So let's look at the legislation Agency Workers Regulations section 3:

(2) an individual is not an agency worker if—
(a)the contract the individual has with the temporary work agency has the effect that the status of the agency is that of a client or customer of a profession or business undertaking carried on by the individual; or
(b)there is a contract, by virtue of which the individual is available to work for the hirer, having the effect that the status of the hirer is that of a client or customer of a profession or business undertaking carried on by the individual.

Oooh, that's as clear as mud. Another piece of stupid legislation that agencies will interpret which ever way benefits them and if it ever does get challenged in court then the agent will either back down or it will take 10 years to come to trial anyway.

Another waste of everyone's time, just like the Conduct of Employment Agency Regulations...

[Steven@Parasol]

The umbrellas listed (Parasol, Contractor Umbrella and Paystream) have recently adopted the "Swedish Derogation" opt-out model . Under this scheme 'contractors' who sign up become 'full time' permie employees of the umbrella with pay between assignments (probably minimum wage) and are hence exempt from AWR.

Most who enter contracting usually do so for reasons including...

a) to be paid a shed load of money often and frequently, usually weekly
b) to take time off as and when required between contracts, as the whim takes - could be as extreme as 6 months working, followed by 6 months off, followed by 3 months working
c) to be their own ‘boss’ away from traditional permie practices such as org charts, performace appraisals, hours of working, etc.

I'd be interested to know which Swedish Derogation umbrellas can offer the above (especially b) to their 'contractors' (permies).

Swedish Derogation Umbrella ‘Contractor’ = Permie

You can absolutely do all of those things still. The positive thing about the swedish derogation model, and the match perm pay model (and we'll be offering both) is that nothing changes for the contractor. Not even your take home pay.

And anyone that has worked through a correctly structured umbrella company in the past would have been their employee anyway with a full over-arching contract of employment. So again, no change from how umbrella contractors have always worked.

[Vallah]

The umbrellas listed (Parasol, Contractor Umbrella and Paystream) have recently adopted the "Swedish Derogation" opt-out model . Under this scheme 'contractors' who sign up become 'full time' permie employees of the umbrella with pay between assignments (probably minimum wage) and are hence exempt from AWR.

Doesn't the pay during a break have to be at least 50% of the last contract rate?