Crunch accountant or personal one ?

[escapeUK]

If I were to appoint an accountant, I would not bother being savvy. I would rather want peace of mind. My accountant should be the one who should be taking care of all of that.

Why would I spend my hard earned £££s if I had to do it all by myself.

So you dont have an accountant in your small to medium sized business? I think you will find the more expensive accountants you still pay them more and do it yourself. By which I mean entering all the figures into a spreadsheet.

Correct Claire? Oh and if your accountant does anything wrong, you are responsible not them so you still have to go through all their figures and check and understand them. So sadly the employ an accountant and forget about it is not an option on offer.

[iamintoit]

escapeUK

So you dont have an accountant in your small to medium sized business? I think you will find the more expensive accountants you still pay them more and do it yourself. By which I mean entering all the figures into a spreadsheet.

Correct Claire? Oh and if your accountant does anything wrong, you are responsible not them so you still have to go through all their figures and check and understand them. So sadly the employ an accountant and forget about it is not an option on offer.

I have an accountant and thankfully, I have got a good one. They have been keeping my accounts for long and haven't had any problems so far. They've kept me updated as well as made my life easy. That's what I want.

and BTW, now we have softwares in place that takes care of the spreadsheet thing

[Nixon Williams]

Alan,

So you mean to say; irrespective of the turnover, price is same for all.

Which means whether my turnover is £25k per annum or £225k per annum, my fee and service level will be the same? And both will be tagged "KEY ACCOUNTS" or considered?

Yes. It does not cost us more to process an invoice for example, whether it is for £100 or £100,000 - what drives our costs is the quantity of paperwork etc.

We do not have 'Key Accounts' - all of our clients are considered important, they all pay the same fee, so why would we give a priority service over others?

Alan

[northernladuk]

I have an accountant and thankfully, I have got a good one. They have been keeping my accounts for long and haven't had any problems so far. They've kept me updated as well as made my life easy. That's what I want.

and BTW, now we have softwares in place that takes care of the spreadsheet thing

Who's is this stupid sockie?

[escapeUK]

Who's is this stupid sockie?

God knows. But who would say something like "If I were to appoint an accountant....." and then in the next post say they do have one.

Or to class themselves as a small-medium contractor? A one man band can never be more than that.

[davestewart]

I've just started using Crunch, and it seems pretty good overall. The reconciliation process is particularly nifty. You can see this in action in this getting started video, along with everything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUzg...ayer_embedded#!

I also get regular reminder emails about what I should be doing, and I can (and do) email or pick up the phone at any time, and my queries are handled by my own personal account handler. Today I've asked lots of questions I needed to, and even fed back about their software, and how it could be made a bit better. I got proper responses back as well - they were actually really interested in making things better.

The one thing I do know, is that I have a feeling that I'm not going to enjoy adding all the data to the system, but I don't mind finding out, to test the waters as it were. If it all pans out, this initial bit of effort will makes things easier in the long run.

The other app to bear in mind if you want more control over your business, but would like to stay with a local firm is FreeAgent. I've just signed up to their free 30-day demo, and I'm going to rate the two apps at the same time, then make a choice about which one I want to continue with when I've decided which one suits me better.

Online Tax Software for Small Businesses - FreeAgent

Free Agent also lets you track your personal bank account, but Crunch doesn't.

I'm the same as the OP - a freelance Ltd contractor, and my expenses are minimal. I'm not caught by IR35, and my affairs are simple. I was paying £1200 a year to an accountant, then I switched to Crunch. When I left, they actually offered me the same deal (about £750 a year).

I've not made up my mind which one is better yet. I left as I wanted to be more in control of my business, and thought that being in charge of the numbers would do that for me, but as it happens, I've been too caught up with work to keep on top of things. In a way I wish I still had my accountant to just give my Barclays downloads to!

Anyway - I would say try crunch, or perhaps go with FreeAgent first, just to get used to the practicalities of entering the data yourself.

Good luck,
Dave

[techgirl]

Hi there- Just wanted to say that my husband and I have been using Crunch for our 3 businesses for a few years now and its working really well for us.

What we like about it is that it combines the online software (much like FreeAgent) with real accountants for the one monthly price. So they deal with all our HMRC post, VAT returns, statutory filings, corporation tax etc And will also be dealing with the RTI side of things when that comes into play.

And I like the fact that we can call up with questions or email and deal with our account managers. When it comes to day to day bookkeeping I tend to use the Snap app to take photos of all my receipts and they get entered automatically. I also use the MileCruncher app to track business mileage. Monthly reconciliations are easy as you can upload your bank statements and I think they are working on a live feed. Issuing and keeping track of invoices is also very easy.

Happy to answer any further questions if you want to know more specifics.
Best
Francesca

[mkhari]

I've just come to the end of my first year using Crunch. I started from scratch with them, they set up my company, organised all the paperwork, registered me for VAT and everything else that needed doing. I will state up front that I am staying with them but there are pitfalls you should be aware of. In summary I would say yes use Crunch but don't trust Crunch! The software is superb but the human side continuously lets them down.

First what I like. The software is good and mostly works well. You can easily keep on top of your invoices, expenses and banking. Paying yourself is straightforward and the system is flexible and fairly complete. I have a number of friends who started off with limited companies, fell behind on the paperwork, got fined by HMRC and as a result are now with dodgy offshore umbrellas based in Panama and no I am not joking. I work alongside about 30 other contractors, about 30% of whom are with UK umbrellas and of the rest there is a 50:50 split between ltd companies and offshore umbrellas. If you use the Crunch software, putting in between 30 - 60 minutes a week, you can stay on top of everything, all your returns are organised for you, all you have to do is pay the money over to HMRC. You know instantly the financial position of your company, how much money you can take out and how much money you owe in Corporation tax and VAT.

I absolutely love the Crunch software experience, I like being in control, I like not using spreadsheets, I like that all my liabilities are calculated in real time and returns produced and filed for me and I like the fact that Crunch store all my expenses with images of my receipts. I can run off interim accounts at any time on demand. The reporting side of Crunch is comprehensive and accurate.

I am now on my third account manager and she is all I could hope for, in short perfect!

I have tried, Freebooks and Xero alongside Crunch, to see if either was as good, and for me in the position of a one man ltd company, I decided Crunch was the best by a long way. This is why I am sticking with it into my second year.

The reason I was looking at alternative software was because there are elements of Crunch that I do not like and I wanted to see if there was a way to stay with similar software but another accountant. Note that money wasn't the issue, I would have paid more to another accountant if they gave me the same software experience but better service. What I decided was that this perfect mix didn't exist, so I am staying with Crunch.

Which brings me on to what I don't like. Firstly it was the whole process of setting up the company. This is managed by, in my case, a very efficient admin person not an accountant. Don't think you can have a conversation or a discussion here, because you can't, you are going to set up your company according to a script and that's it. I wanted to discuss the relative advantages of different share splits with my wife as the second director on company set up, sorry not in the script. I could choose either sole director or a 50:50 split, that was it. No discussion needed on value of initial shares, that was going to be 100 x £1 shares, not given the chance of any input. To be fair, it was all very efficient but I didn't feel as involved as I should have been. I got the impression that my questions were a waste of time and I just had to do it their way. They did get the company name wrong on some paperwork and right on other bits but to their credit, they fixed that with little fuss.

Next came the case of the arrogant accountant. He decided to suspend my ability to set up a payroll because I hadn't provided my tax coding letter. Now I pointed out that he had been sent a copy of this letter by HMRC but apparently Crunch do not read their mail, they make you send it again. Now this wouldn't have been an issue if he had called me and asked for it, but no I was supposed to guess. I spoke to him on the phone and he was without any doubt the most arrogant **** I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in my life ever. If you end up with this guy as your accountant, then I am sorry for you, luckily I have had no further contact with him

Next problem was account managers. My first account manager absolutely refused to let me claim back VAT on set-up costs on my first return, because I was on the flat rate scheme. Now you are allowed to reclaim start up VAT on your first return but she wouldn't have it and it took a fair bit of time and a great deal of insistence, before this went to an accountant who agreed with me and did it. After that point, my account manager was changed, the next one was completely invisible, I never spoke to her and all my emails to her were answered by someone who was standing in for her. On no occasion did I ever have direct contact with her by any means whatsoever. So on to my third account manager who I have to say is an absolute dream. She is brilliant, efficient, responsive and in all ways, all I could ask for. So that is sorted now. Again, if you get either of the first two, I do feel sorry for you.

Crunch have two apps, Milecruncher and SNAP. My first complaint here is that they don't have Windows phone apps so I had to get an iphone, small thing I know but it annoys me. Milecruncher is simple and works, but really annoying if you have a lot of repetitive journeys. It doesn't remember anything you put in, it is just a front end for the main Crunch app. What I would like to see is the ability to select common journeys instead of typing in the details every time. Also, you can't use Milecruncher and the app for mileage, its one or the other, if you enter mileage into the app directly, this doesn't feed back into Milecruncher so your cumulative mileage calculations will be wrong. After using it for a year, I am abandoning it and using the spreadsheet that my oh so wonderful account manager has provided. Mileage is a third of my expenses and I need an easier way of putting it in. I like SNAP, but even if you turn your phone volume off, it make a really loud and annoying noise when sending off an expense and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Both the Crunch apps are OK, but not really there yet and there is no sign of them being developed further.

My biggest issue with Crunch is that they don't seem to understand expenses, tax and VAT. I work 100 miles from my home and after staying in hotels for a while decided to get a flat. This was so I didn't have to eat out all the time and had somewhere to leave my stuff. Now this place is strictly Monday to Friday, I go home for weekends and my home is my main residence and my business base. When I first asked if I could expense my flat I was told no. This is obviously wrong so I queried it and this time the answer came back that I could expense 5/7 of it but not the weekends! Wrong again, back to Crunch more insistence and eventually they managed to find an accountant who was somewhat familiar with tax and expenses who confirmed that yes, I could expenses the rent and council tax. I had a little push back on claiming VAT on capital expenses over £2k, but this was sorted out fairly quickly, mainly because I now have such a good account manager.

When I set up the company and joined the flat rate scheme, the admin person sent me a list of flat rate bands and asked me to pick one. Now my business area wasn't listed so I ended up on 14.5%. What I have now found out is that she sent me the short form list, there is a more comprehensive list which did show my business area at 12%. So I have spent the last year paying too much in VAT to HMRC. When I queried this, I was told no twice and actually had to send the HMRC guidance note and tables to Crunch before they would accept this.

So, in conclusion. The Crunch software is the best I have seen for my type of business. It is complete and accurate and takes very little time to use, by the end of the month I am always completely up to date. Crunch do not spend enough time or money training their staff, there is no malice there, they are all good people trying to do a good job but they just don't know enough. So if you are OK with being in control and reading up on the relevant HMRC guidance and company regulations, go with them but question every answer you get and every bit of advice they give you, check for yourself! If you can't do this and need good solid advice you can trust, then go with SJD or Nixon Williams. My best friend is a small business accountant, he understands why I use Crunch, its because I am a bit geeky but they don't worry him. They simply can't touch the sort of personal service and depth of advice he offers and his clients are happy with their spreadsheets.

I do like Crunch, despite the frustrations. Right now I would give them 6/10, if they want to get to 9/10, then they need to work on the human side but to be fair, I think they are a lot better now than they were a year ago.

[Brian Potter]

I will state up front that I am staying with them but there are pitfalls you should be aware of. In summary I would say yes use Crunch but don't trust Crunch!

I hope you're not their head of marketing?

[JonNorris@Crunch]

Blimey, thanks for the honest (and comprehensive) feedback! Really pleased you like the software, seems we've let you down a bit on the service side though. Just to answer some of your points...

I wanted to discuss the relative advantages of different share splits with my wife as the second director on company set up, sorry not in the script. I could choose either sole director or a 50:50 split, that was it. No discussion needed on value of initial shares, that was going to be 100 x £1 shares, not given the chance of any input. To be fair, it was all very efficient but I didn't feel as involved as I should have been.

I can understand the frustration here - the largest portion of our new clients are first-time company directors so we set the process up to be as straightforward as possible for people who have no experience. I'll have a word with the team to get this looked at.

Next came the case of the arrogant accountant...

Next problem was account managers...

This is obviously not how it should work. Apologies for the not-great experience here - looking into what happened now. If you want to DM me your company name that'd be much appreciated.

My first complaint here is that they don't have Windows phone apps so I had to get an iphone, small thing I know but it annoys me.

This is simply a supply and demand problem unfortunately - Windows Phone is only 0.23% of our mobile traffic. There's a forum thread you can vote on here to hurry things along, we'll take another look at it if there's enough demand.

Both the Crunch apps are OK, but not really there yet and there is no sign of them being developed further.

We're developing both - we did a big update to Snap in January. And agreed about the noise - it drives me mad. Hoping to have that fixed soon

Crunch do not spend enough time or money training their staff, there is no malice there, they are all good people trying to do a good job but they just don't know enough.

I'll have to disagree with you here - we spend an inordinate amount of time and money on training every year. We're AAT, ACCA and PCG Accredited, and next week we're opening an Academy so we can do all our training in-house. We live and die on the quality of advice we give, so obviously it's a huge priority.

Apologies again for letting you down, I can assure you it's an edge case though. DM me your details and I'll take a look at what happened.