Mobile internet - 3G vs LTE on the train

[Optimus Prime]

Is 4G/LTE any better than 3G on the train in and around London?

I have 3G. On the train, it sucks. I turn it off and use whatever is cached.

When not on the train, LTE seems to be awesome - guy at work with LTE got 20Mbps vs 2 Mbps for me on SpeedTest. Different network though.

[SimonMac]

Problem with being on a train is you will often be moving fast and moving between cell towers the handover can cause problems but this is small, most trainlines are in more rural roots so 4G won't be an option unless around major cities

[Optimus Prime]

Problem with being on a train is you will often be moving fast and moving between cell towers the handover can cause problems but this is small, most trainlines are in more rural roots so 4G won't be an option unless around major cities

I understand and agree.

Wondering if 4G is better than 3G in the face of this problem around London (say zone 6 to zone 1 travel).

[Paddy]

I understand and agree.

Wondering if 4G is better than 3G in the face of this problem around London (say zone 6 to zone 1 travel).

4G is worse by design, Try different providers on 3G

[Optimus Prime]

4G is worse by design, Try different providers on 3G

Interesting. Pointer to some place that explains this?

[swamp]

4g is OK but patchy. Much better than 3g on my commute anyway. EE have the best 4g coverage on commuter trains, I hear.

[Paddy]

Interesting. Pointer to some place that explains this?

It's basic science. The shorter the wave length, the more energy it takes to generate a signal and the shorter the wave length, the less distance the signal will travel. Eg, Long wave on your car radio will work for several hundred miles but a UHF on television will (generally) only work for less than 100 miles.

Your phone uses high frequency (almost microwave) digital signals known a square waves. Digital signals work over shorter distances than sine waves. The higher the frequency, more data can be transmitted. GSM works well over longer distances but is poor for data. At the other end 4G works over short distances and is great for data.

The problem is that SPs will only invest money where there is a lot of traffic, eg city centres and not out in the sticks or in downtown Weymouth.

[VectraMan]

Does 4G use higher frequencies? I thought it had been squeezed in around the existing band.

As an aside, I was returning on the Channel Tunnel on Monday and I noticed I was still getting a French network signal right up until the moment we emerged into sunshine in Folkstone. Apparently they did that for the Olympics (the French this is) but it's taken until this year for the British networks to do the same for the southbound side (I didn't think to check on the way out).

I never understand why it's so hard to target train lines. There's not all that many of them and obviously there's going to be a much larger number of people attempting to use a network where there's a train line than if it was just the residents of rural locations.

[Paddy]

Does 4G use higher frequencies? I thought it had been squeezed in around the existing band.

As an aside, I was returning on the Channel Tunnel on Monday and I noticed I was still getting a French network signal right up until the moment we emerged into sunshine in Folkstone. Apparently they did that for the Olympics (the French this is) but it's taken until this year for the British networks to do the same for the southbound side (I didn't think to check on the way out).

I never understand why it's so hard to target train lines. There's not all that many of them and obviously there's going to be a much larger number of people attempting to use a network where there's a train line than if it was just the residents of rural locations.

In the UK4G is 2.6GHZ, 3G is 1.9GHZ..ish