Accommodation & other expenses when staying away

**TykeMerc** · 13 January 2015, 23:29

1. You could do, personally I pay my away from home rents personally and expense it to MyCo Ltd. It seems pretty simple that way and any payments from my business can be easily identified on the statements by the notes.
2. Highly debatable that. If you don't have utility bills or rent at your parents then your response to an HMRC challenge could be highly limited, it depends how risk averse you are and how you would argue where "home" is. Is YourCo Ltd registered at your parents for instance?
3. That depends a bit on 2, if it's not "away from home" accommodation then you can't expense the travel no matter what. The answer to 2 is critical for 3.
4. If you're cooking meals then that's a normal at home rather than away from home activity and not a business expense. You don't expense groceries, HMRC get really grumpy over that. When I rent/house share I don't expense evening meals or breakfast unless I early start and eat on site.

It's slightly silly of course as part of my staying away on this contract where I use a hotel all week is I often buy sandwiches, salad boxes and prepared food from a supermarket for evening meals and expense those, but I also randomly use pubs, restaurants etc for others. I can defend the argument that I'm incurring business cost and not just buying groceries.

**Graham** · 13 January 2015, 23:57

Originally posted by TykeMerc View Post

1. You could do, personally I pay my away from home rents personally and expense it to MyCo Ltd. It seems pretty simple that way and any payments from my business can be easily identified on the statements by the notes.
2. Highly debatable that. If you don't have utility bills or rent at your parents then your response to an HMRC challenge could be highly limited, it depends how risk averse you are and how you would argue where "home" is. Is YourCo Ltd registered at your parents for instance?
3. That depends a bit on 2, if it's not "away from home" accommodation then you can't expense the travel no matter what. The answer to 2 is critical for 3.
4. If you're cooking meals then that's a normal at home rather than away from home activity and not a business expense. You don't expense groceries, HMRC get really grumpy over that. When I rent/house share I don't expense evening meals or breakfast unless I early start and eat on site.

It's slightly silly of course as part of my staying away on this contract where I use a hotel all week is I often buy sandwiches, salad boxes and prepared food from a supermarket for evening meals and expense those, but I also randomly use pubs, restaurants etc for others. I can defend the argument that I'm incurring business cost and not just buying groceries.

Thanks.

1. I had considered doing it that way, but figured it'd be easier to just take the money straight from the business account and therefore skip having to reimburse myself etc. However yeah I guess it'd create a slightly better trail than just withdrawing cash from the business account.
2. Only utility bill I have is for Virgin TV

However all my bank accounts etc are registered here as well as my Ltd Company.
4. Fair enough that makes sense.

**TheCyclingProgrammer** · 14 January 2015, 00:25

It doesn't make much difference whether you pay for the accommodation directly from the business bank account or pay personally and expense it (i.e. reimburse yourself). It needs to be reported on your P11d in either case and you need to hold on to the receipt.

Regarding meals, you should be able to claim for any subsistence costs incurred as part of your journey, whilst at the temporary workplace and any necessary meals when staying overnight:

EIM31815 - Travel expenses: general: accommodation and subsistence: include associated subsistence

My reading of this is that any food you need to pay for whilst in your accommodation, whether its groceries or take-away food, should be allowable, but I'm not 100% certain.

I think it should be reasonably easy to prove that your parents house is your normal permanent home - you would have to in order for any accommodation and related costs to be tax deductible.

You can also claim £5/night for incidental expenses.

See Example 1 here, as it seems to be the closest fit:
EIM31816 - Travel expenses: general: accommodation and subsistence: subsistence costs: examples

This to me also seems to support that any subsistence costs while staying away from home are allowable and I don't see what difference it makes if this is take-away, eating out at a restaurant, food at a hotel or buying some groceries.

**Contreras** · 14 January 2015, 00:51

Concur with TM and TCP, mostly.

1. Yes if you want. But I seriously doubt the landlady's stated reason. I'd ask to pay by cheque or bank transfer (from the company account), for traceability to settle any dispute and not just with HMRC! Only drug dealers need to be carrying large wads of cash around regularly.

2. Opinions will vary. Do you usually reside at parents address while in contract? If so do you claim mileage on those contracts? Or are contracts typically all away stays?

Also remember that it's the association with business travel that let's you claim subsistence expenses. If you can't show the rented accommodation as a temporary base then the mileage* and bought meals cannot be expensed without incurring BiK either. Ditto for overnight £5 incidentals allowance.

* except for mileage between accommodation and work site, IMHO.

**TheCyclingProgrammer** · 14 January 2015, 01:23

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

If you can't show the rented accommodation as a temporary base then the mileage* and bought meals cannot be expensed without incurring BiK either. Ditto for overnight £5 incidentals allowance.

I think this is the key thing for OP - if his parent's cannot be proved to be his normal permanent residence, pretty much all expenses related to the temporary accommodation, travel between it and his parent's home and subsistence while he is there go out of the window. All he will be able to claim is the travel to/from the rented room to the temporary site and subsistence while on-site.

IMO his parent's house can probably be proven as his permanent residence but that is just my opinion.

**TheFaQQer** · 14 January 2015, 10:31

Originally posted by Graham View Post

1 - Is it ok to withdraw cash from my business account to pay the rent? (I've never withdrawn cash from the account before so sorry if it seems like a silly question!)

Yes, you can, but make sure you account for it all accurately. I would ask to pay by bank transfer if it was me.

Originally posted by Graham View Post

2 - Because I don't own/rent my own property does that mean I can't claim for accommodation away from home or is it reasonable to call my parents house home as all my belongings are there and its where I would be returning to each weekend?

If you can argue that your parents home is your permanent place of accommodation, then you can claim it. I think you probably could argue that, but I am not an accountant.

Originally posted by Graham View Post

3 - I will be paying myself mileage for driving from home to the rented room, I presume I can also pay myself mileage from the rented room to work and back each day?

Same as 2

Originally posted by Graham View Post

4 - I'm confused whether I can claim for some/all/none of the meals I make for myself whilst I am away from home?

Same as 2 - if you have another permanent home, then you can claim. If it isn't then you can't.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 14 January 2015, 11:32

With regard to the cost of the accommodation I am not sure whether that would be allowable and would advise to run it past HMRC. The fact that the OP is staying there temporarily whilst looking for rented accommodation (and presumably not incurring a cost) would lead me to think that it couldn't be considered his primary accommodation. However, one of the determinants when allowing an expense is whether an additional cost has been incurred and that criteria would be met here.

**TheFaQQer** · 14 January 2015, 11:37

Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post

With regard to the cost of the accommodation I am not sure whether that would be allowable and would advise to run it past HMRC. The fact that the OP is staying there temporarily whilst looking for rented accommodation (and presumably not incurring a cost) would lead me to think that it couldn't be considered his primary accommodation. However, one of the determinants when allowing an expense is whether an additional cost has been incurred and that criteria would be met here.

The OP was renting, but has changed their permanent base at the moment, while they are looking for somewhere else. If it was me, I'd claim it, and be prepared to argue the case if it ever came up - they are living somewhere else, their possessions stay somewhere else, and the proposed rental for the contract doesn't cover a full week, which implies to me that they have somewhere else that they normally reside.

If he owned or rented somewhere else at the moment, then there wouldn't be an argument over whether that house is temporary or not. The easiest way to make it clear might be to pay his parents rent under the rent a room scheme, so they don't pay any extra tax on it, and he has more proof that he was living somewhere else because he was paying for it.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 14 January 2015, 11:50

Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post

The OP was renting, but has changed their permanent base at the moment, while they are looking for somewhere else. If it was me, I'd claim it, and be prepared to argue the case if it ever came up - they are living somewhere else, their possessions stay somewhere else, and the proposed rental for the contract doesn't cover a full week, which implies to me that they have somewhere else that they normally reside.

If he owned or rented somewhere else at the moment, then there wouldn't be an argument over whether that house is temporary or not. The easiest way to make it clear might be to pay his parents rent under the rent a room scheme, so they don't pay any extra tax on it, and he has more proof that he was living somewhere else because he was paying for it.

Yep it could be argued either way and I wouldn't be surprised, if you asked two HMRC chaps, you'd get two different answers. I think you are right though that the case is stronger for the OP if he can prove he's paying something to his parents

Accommodation & other expenses when staying away