Contractor knacker yard

[permidom]

Hello folks,
I wanted to ask contract software developers a question that might be come across contentious; unintentionally l must add.

What age do you feel it's game over in the contracting world given that allot of devs are young pups (just an observation of people around me in my company). Is there age discrimination like in the permie world?

I was thinking the other day you don't really see many devs in their 40s let alone in their 50s, most l know have moved onto consultancy, design, management and even sales. I'm 40 myself and wonder if it would be too late to become a contractor.

Reason l ask is is because our company is restructuring so not sure how long i've got left in permie land.

I'm also concious if l do go contracting and decide to go permie in my late 40's l may come across that dreaded age discrimination.

[oliverson]

Hello folks,
I wanted to ask contract software developers a question that might be come across contentious; unintentionally l must add.

What age do you feel it's game over in the contracting world given that allot of devs are young pups (just an observation of people around me in my company). Is there age discrimination like in the permie world?

I was thinking the other day you don't really see many devs in their 40s let alone in their 50s, most l know have moved onto consultancy, design, management and even sales. I'm 40 myself and wonder if it would be too late to become a contractor.

Reason l ask is is because our company is restructuring so not sure how long i've got left in permie land.

I'm also concious if l do go contracting and decide to go permie in my late 40's l may come across that dreaded age discrimination.

I'm in the age bracket to which you refer. It's true that some developers do move into other disciplines and that's probably because of an unwillingness to keep relearning more than anything else. For some of us though, coding is a more than a vocation. It kind of worries me that I'm competing against an ever growing number of 'emerging' developers but I have an ever growing list of satisfied clients and it just keeps on growing. No matter how the younger guys code 24x7, blog about it, partake in hackathons, contribute to open source, etc, etc, the saving grace is that none of the above is any substitute for actual experience delivering upon client requirements, and of equal importance, handing over a well structured codebase that is easily maintained. To summarise, I guess it's more a question of desire than anything else.

[mrv]

I have been asking myself this very question much more often than I would like to admit. From my perspective, contracting offers very little, if any, opportunity to move upwards on career ladder. As a permie, one could expect to be promoted to solution architect, designer etc after some years, while contractor just becomes more experienced developer. This is not a bad thing in itself, as oliverson has pointed out, but there are other little things that could become a bit annoying with time: being part of a team half your age, they are discussing subjects you are either tired of (omg you won't believe how pissed I was yesterday!), or have no interest in, or cannot relate to. One's ability to connect with the team will go down, you will be "that old man in the corner". And even code quality will buy you another 5 - 7 years max. I'm thinking I will move back to permiedom in the next 10 yrs, while I can still play that "somewhat youngish but very experienced" card and become some sort of consultant. Or become a lone ranger, stay with obscure technologies only few clients in the world know about, and stretch it as far as I can.

One reason you don't see many coders in their 50s around is that their knowledge and experience has become pretty much obsolete. Very few projects are done in C or COBOL or whatever was the thing in 80s. Thank god Visual C++ is still a bit alive, and us younger folks have seen Java or .Net from their beginning, so from the technical perspective we will be relevant for the next decade or so. After that - who knows, maybe we will have AIs doing all the coding for us, or maybe coding will be done like web page desing these days: go through a wizard, tell it where you want your menu placed and what color should it be, and you're done. Getting old is no fun.

[SpontaneousOrder]

One reason you don't see many coders in their 50s around is that their knowledge and experience has become pretty much obsolete.

The main reason you don't see many older devs is because 50 years ago there were only a handful (hundreds tops). Then every few years the number of devs doubles. Now there are millions. THAT is why you see so few older devs compared to younger devs - it's physically impossible for the market to not be very heavily loaded with more junior devs.

I.e. every year the average seniority among developers must inescapably get more and more junior.

The rate of growth (as a fraction increase) will ease off soon, and then in another 20 years there will be loads of old developers.

[cojak]

I do not agree that contracting does not give you an opportunity to 'go up the career ladder'.

You are in control of your own skill set. It takes 24 months, planning and money (something that many contractors are reluctant to part with when it comes to training or certification), to move into a new area in your field. Often it comes quicker than that, certificates and skills set bells ringing with agents when they need people.

If you want to be a solution architect or work in a new code research, plan and pay for it. Don't come here saying the getting old is no fun, because you'll not get much sympathy. Stop relying on the skill set you learned in your twenties when you were a permie.

Getting lazy and set in your ways is no fun, admittedly.

[ShandyDrinker]

No matter how the younger guys code 24x7, blog about it, partake in hackathons, contribute to open source, etc, etc, the saving grace is that none of the above is any substitute for actual experience delivering upon client requirements, and of equal importance, handing over a well structured codebase that is easily maintained.

One thing that shows me that the software industry is still immature is the fact that the same mistakes are repeated over and over again. Sure, new technology is invented all the time but the number of projects I've seen go vastly over time and budget because the young pretender has convinced management to let them try the latest and greatest approach/toolset/etc. Agile, TDD, Workflow Foundation, Angular, you get the picture. This article gives a good overview of the problem. While many of these toolsets and approaches have their place, they should play a supporting role in what is required to deliver a system that people actually want/need.

You are in control of your own skill set. It takes 24 months, planning and money (something that many contractors are reluctant to part with when it comes to training or certification), to move into a new area in your field. Often it comes quicker than that, certificates and skills set bells ringing with agents when they need people.

If you want to be a solution architect or work in a new code research, plan and pay for it.

Spot on.

[BolshieBastard]

Hello folks,
I wanted to ask contract software developers a question that might be come across contentious; unintentionally l must add.

What age do you feel it's game over in the contracting world given that allot of devs are young pups (just an observation of people around me in my company). Is there age discrimination like in the permie world?

I was thinking the other day you don't really see many devs in their 40s let alone in their 50s, most l know have moved onto consultancy, design, management and even sales. I'm 40 myself and wonder if it would be too late to become a contractor.

Reason l ask is is because our company is restructuring so not sure how long i've got left in permie land.

I'm also concious if l do go contracting and decide to go permie in my late 40's l may come across that dreaded age discrimination.

Im not a developer so cant speak about that sector. But, I know for a fact a couple of contract jobs I went for I was rejected on age grounds. Not much you can do about it unless of course the company tells you such.

Ive even heard that one of the well known money comparison companies who are based near North Wales will 'not take on any contractor aged over 35.'

That said, for every one of these, there are plenty of companies where age isnt an issue.

[permidom]

One thing that shows me that the software industry is still immature is the fact that the same mistakes are repeated over and over again. Sure, new technology is invented all the time but the number of projects I've seen go vastly over time and budget because the young pretender has convinced management to let them try the latest and greatest approach/toolset/etc. Agile, TDD, Workflow Foundation, Angular, you get the picture.

Yes i've seen this over the years. New technology being used to reach same end goal costing more time and money.

[permidom]

Ive even heard that one of the well known money comparison companies who are based near North Wales will 'not take on any contractor aged over 35.'

I can only guess it must be down to cost.

[ShandyDrinker]

Yes i've seen this over the years. New technology being used to reach same end goal costing more time and money.

Before I became a contractor myself just under 8 years ago, when I was a permie development manager the best person I ever hired was a late 40s contractor. He came in, got his head down with the development stack used at the time, got on with it and delivered what was required a month early then went off to do something else.

In my opinion this is what we, as contractors, should be offering; expertise in our chosen skillset(s) and proven ability to deliver. The person in question was never really short of work as he would just get the job done.

I'm over 40 and don't have much of a problem getting interviews for development roles even now.

I can only guess it must be down to cost.

Cost and the fact that younger contractors will often be prepared to work longer hours in the desire to make a name for themselves. One of the most important aspects of being a contractor is knowing your own worth and perhaps as important knowing what the market will stand to pay for your skills.