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MarkT
19th November 2015, 09:51
Freelance Statistics 2015: The Freelance Economy in Numbers | Ben Matthews (http://benrmatthews.com/freelance-statistics-2015/)

Seems to have some really interesting numbers, £21bn? Sounds pretty high to me, but what happens to that number should it all come crashing down? Even if £400m could be saved in taxes, how much of the £21bn would be lost?

pjt
19th November 2015, 10:22
Freelance Statistics 2015: The Freelance Economy in Numbers | Ben Matthews (http://benrmatthews.com/freelance-statistics-2015/)

Seems to have some really interesting numbers, £21bn? Sounds pretty high to me, but what happens to that number should it all come crashing down? Even if £400m could be saved in taxes, how much of the £21bn would be lost?

Hopefully this sort of info is getting to the people making the decisions (IPSE?). This alone surely highlights how crazy killing the contractor market would be!

malvolio
19th November 2015, 11:18
Hopefully this sort of info is getting to the people making the decisions (IPSE?). This alone surely highlights how crazy killing the contractor market would be!
I think IPSE commissioned the original research that came up with his figure...:wink

But yes, it makes the economic case rather well, doesn't it.

MrMarkyMark
19th November 2015, 11:20
Nothing, as far as Georgie is concerned.

HTH.

pjt
19th November 2015, 11:36
I think IPSE commissioned the original research that came up with his figure...:wink

But yes, it makes the economic case rather well, doesn't it.

Its makes the case very well. We need to be seeing articles light this getting the light of day rather than the usual PSC tax avoidance nonsense. The facts in this case would be hard for HMRC to argue against. I thought that's what I partially paid my IPSE dues for. But if they're not then using these facts to beat HRMC around with whats the point in doing the research :tantrum:

MrMarkyMark
19th November 2015, 11:41
Its makes the case very well. We need to be seeing articles light this getting the light of day rather than the usual PSC tax avoidance nonsense. The facts in this case would be hard for HMRC to argue against. I thought that's what I partially paid my IPSE dues for. But if they're not then using these facts to beat HRMC around with whats the point in doing the research :tantrum:

Instead, they roll over and suggest, such, ill advising ideas as the Freelancers Limited Co :suicide:

LucidDementia
19th November 2015, 11:41
Number of contractors: x
Annual mean billing per contractor: y
Tax average percentage: z

So we have :

z% of x by y = Osbourne is a moron

LondonManc
19th November 2015, 12:01
So, of that £21bn, how much of the VAT goes to HMRC without a reclaim? How much will they lose out on for the sake of a bit of lobbying from bob consulting, whose tax liabilities mostly disappear back to the sub-continent?

malvolio
19th November 2015, 12:05
Its makes the case very well. We need to be seeing articles light this getting the light of day rather than the usual PSC tax avoidance nonsense. The facts in this case would be hard for HMRC to argue against. I thought that's what I partially paid my IPSE dues for. But if they're not then using these facts to beat HRMC around with whats the point in doing the research :tantrum:
They are, believe me, and have been for some time. The fact that HMG are ignoring the simple economics should highlight how much a punt this latest "leak" really is.

Until we see a concrete proposal, probably in the Autumn Statement, there is not actually a lot to argue against.

malvolio
19th November 2015, 12:06
Instead, they roll over and suggest, such, ill advising ideas as the Freelancers Limited Co :suicide:
Ermm, wrong. But if it makes you happy... :hug:

Zero Liability
19th November 2015, 12:08
Its makes the case very well. We need to be seeing articles light this getting the light of day rather than the usual PSC tax avoidance nonsense. The facts in this case would be hard for HMRC to argue against. I thought that's what I partially paid my IPSE dues for. But if they're not then using these facts to beat HRMC around with whats the point in doing the research :tantrum:

Given that the £400m figure is still being bandied about, I'd say they're pretty impervious to facts. I don't think HMT can afford to be, however, which is why I'm not entirely pessimistic.

pjt
19th November 2015, 12:20
They are, believe me, and have been for some time. The fact that HMG are ignoring the simple economics should highlight how much a punt this latest "leak" really is.

Until we see a concrete proposal, probably in the Autumn Statement, there is not actually a lot to argue against.

Malvolio do you have knowledge then of IPSE's current attempts at lobbying. What feedback have they had so far is it all pissing in the wind??

TheFaQQer
19th November 2015, 12:39
Malvolio do you have knowledge then of IPSE's current attempts at lobbying. What feedback have they had so far is it all pissing in the wind??

If you want an accurate answer, I'd suggest that this isn't the forum in which to ask the question - no-one from IPSE should be revealing on CUK any details of the discussions that have been had and how they have been received.

pjt
19th November 2015, 12:39
If you want an accurate answer, I'd suggest that this isn't the forum in which to ask the question - no-one from IPSE should be revealing on CUK any details of the discussions that have been had and how they have been received.

I don't see the answers on the IPSE forums either.

malvolio
19th November 2015, 13:26
I don't see the answers on the IPSE forums either.Perhaps because they are on-going discussions and so not ready for public consumption?

But I'm not debating the point here either.

hildaoblivion
19th November 2015, 13:32
Perhaps because they are on-going discussions and so not ready for public consumption?

But I'm not debating the point here either.

I dont see anything about that on the IPSE forums either, but IPSE DID send out the 'email your MPs NOW!!' communication which tells us something.

If they are having communications with HMG AND they felt the need to send out the 'panic' message then that doesnt bode well.

Or am I reading too much info into too little data....

MrMarkyMark
19th November 2015, 13:34
Ermm, wrong. But if it makes you happy... :hug:

Errrm, wrong about what exactly?

1) IPSE came up with it / backed it?
2) Or its a stupid idea?

http://forums.contractoruk.com/future-contracting/108354-freelance-limited-company-flc-offering-ipse.html

MarkT
19th November 2015, 13:46
Even if they do pull the plug, there's still time after 25th Nov to respond. I just cannot see how it could be possible to put all this in place by April 16.

It's got to be further consultation, lose your T+S now, and report back this time next year, by which time industry should have pulled this apart. :ladybags:

Hopefully.

LondonManc
19th November 2015, 13:48
I can see it being an April 2017 implementation, otherwise there will be restraint of trade cases going in for those people who are signing six month contracts any time soon.

MarkT
19th November 2015, 13:57
I can see it being an April 2017 implementation, otherwise there will be restraint of trade cases going in for those people who are signing six month contracts any time soon.

Agreed, imagine the 1 month thing coming in in April 16, no contracting via a PSC from that date. Thousands of unemployed accountants on the dole.
The entire contracting workforce of the city of London going on holiday for the month of May....thousands of projects incomplete....rates sky high as nobody wants to contract anymore...:rollin:

bluemonkey71
22nd November 2015, 20:49
Anyone got any stats on the number of contractors in the City?

malvolio
23rd November 2015, 10:28
Anyone got any stats on the number of contractors in the City?
Not sure anyone knows but I've seen numbers around 250k in the Smoke in the past. I suspect about half are in what we would call the City; HMG uses up an awful lot all by itself.