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bks
26th November 2016, 12:47
It has become almost impossible to find IT jobs and contracts in UK, mainly due to import (immigration) of IT staff on ICT (Intra company Transfer) visa by companies like TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL, IBM, Tech-Mahindra, Cognigant etc (just to name a few)! Several IT workers in UK are unemployed.

This is not a racial issue as we all are affected (bye the way, I am of Indian origin)!

If you agree that one of the solution lie in scraping the ICT visa, please see the petition on the link below. It is also important that you promote it among your contacts too.

https://www.change.org/p/home-office-end-uk-s-ict-visa-in-it-computers

Thank you.

cojak
26th November 2016, 13:32
It has become almost impossible to find IT jobs and contracts in UK, mainly due to import (immigration) of IT staff on ICT (Intra company Transfer) visa by companies like TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL, IBM, Tech-Mahindra, Cognigant etc (just to name a few)! Several IT workers in UK are unemployed.

This is not a racial issue as we all are affected (bye the way, I am of Indian origin)!

If you agree that one of the solution lie in scraping the ICT visa, please see the petition on the link below. It is also important that you promote it among your contacts too.

https://www.change.org/p/home-office-end-uk-s-ict-visa-in-it-computers

Thank you.

Contractors have a bigger problem than this to deal with and many have side-stepped this issue, but go ahead if it worries you.

northernladuk
26th November 2016, 13:35
I admire your dedication but scrap ICT? That's just not gonna happen. Maybe if you campaigned for a change or a reduction but scrapping it? You've got more chance of platting fog.

northernladuk
26th November 2016, 13:36
And that title... In computers?? That sounds like something my grandma would say. If you want to be taken seriously at least have a petition title that means something. It's embarrassing.

stek
26th November 2016, 13:42
But there's a huge skills shortage the gov tells us. How about we have more ICT visas?

NotAllThere
26th November 2016, 14:50
I note you are a SAP consultant. At TechEd Barcelona this year, I met many British people, some of whom are contractors. They managed to find work. Unfair competition from Indian (and other places) is a pain- but a good consultant adjusts to market conditions to keep working.

northernladuk
26th November 2016, 15:04
Kind of amusing the bloke is in SAP. Have you tried getting in to any role dealing with SAP if you don't have prior experience. It's more closed shop than SC gigs and probably one of the least likely to be affected by ICT problems.

stek
26th November 2016, 15:15
SAP R/3 is the work of the devil.

We have SAP Hana at the bank, is it still the work of the devil?

NotAllThere
26th November 2016, 16:19
Kind of amusing the bloke is in SAP. Have you tried getting in to any role dealing with SAP if you don't have prior experience. It's more closed shop than SC gigs and probably one of the least likely to be affected by ICT problems.It depends on your sector. Development has been badly hit. It's interesting that development is a very common entry point into SAP offshore - this means it is the lowest paid and the lowest status. And that means that anyone who's any good quickly moves in management or into functional/BA roles. And that means that the number of good experienced developers is dwindling, which is an opportunity.


SAP R/3 is the work of the devil.

We have SAP Hana at the bank, is it still the work of the devil?Yes, but it's in memory so should be faster. Anyone wanting to train themselves on SAP Hana should download the Hana Express VM (http://go.sap.com/developer/topics/sap-hana-express.html). Training courses are available here: https://open.sap.com/courses/hana1

LandRover
26th November 2016, 16:28
I work with many Indians over on ICT visas. IT's a huge issue because many young people are not getting training in key skills because companies have outsourced there IT to consultancies who bring their own people over from India. Its a race to the bottom, you'll get less young people with key skills and so the Big Corps bemoan lack of skills and so our government are conned into allowing the ICT system to be used, and in many cases be abused.

Solution would be to ensure a quota system or insist for every ICT visa granted the company should have to train or employ a British person. You find the only people who back ICT are those who benefit from it or do not care much for the next generation being skilled.

DotasScandal
26th November 2016, 16:47
Same problem that's been existing in the US (flooded by H1Bs) for years, and same causes: our "representatives" have sold us down the river to Big Business (the one that David Gauke loves so much)
Anytime you hear there is a "shortage" of skilled labor, what they really mean is that there is a shortage of DIRT CHEAP skilled labor.

All the rest is commentary.

DotasScandal
26th November 2016, 16:56
but a good consultant adjusts to market conditions to keep working.
Not sure it's quite all as simple as you summarize it.
Sometimes market conditions change quicker or more dramatically than you can adjust to. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a good or bad consultant.
Often you just have to be lucky.

ShandyDrinker
27th November 2016, 09:02
Not sure it's quite all as simple as you summarize it.
Sometimes market conditions change quicker or more dramatically than you can adjust to. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a good or bad consultant.
Often you just have to be lucky.

^^ These points.

NotAllThere
27th November 2016, 13:43
Or maybe the "lucky' ones are the good ones? :wink

SussexSeagull
27th November 2016, 22:09
Or maybe the "lucky' ones are the good ones? :wink

Problem is the market in some areas has been saturated with people coming in from India and gaining the right to stay and ex-permamnent employees sick of wage stagnation.

You can be as good as you want but if you can't get past an agent to get to an interview it doesn't help you.

RonBW
28th November 2016, 00:06
Do the government ever listen to a change.org petition? Maybe a government one would be better, but you'll need 100000 people to sign up to get anywhere (and probably not even then).

I don't see the government going for a complete axe ever though.

RonBW
28th November 2016, 00:09
Same problem that's been existing in the US (flooded by H1Bs) for years, and same causes: our "representatives" have sold us down the river to Big Business (the one that David Gauke loves so much)
Anytime you hear there is a "shortage" of skilled labor, what they really mean is that there is a shortage of DIRT CHEAP skilled labor.

All the rest is commentary.

Whether anyone believes it or not, Trump has implied that he will look at this :laugh

Trump Eyes Changes to Guest Worker Programs (http://www.voanews.com/a/donald-trump-eyes-changes-guest-worker-program/3608083.html)

Crossroads
29th November 2016, 08:51
It has become almost impossible to find IT jobs and contracts in UKHas it? News to me.

Is it just me, or are many of the "there are no jobs, ban ICT's" posters on this thread struggling with basic grammar in their posts? (Not just the OP). Perhaps this is hindering their ability to find roles :smile

FWIW, some organisations do appear to abuse ICT's. In my experience it has created as much work recovering failed projects as it has taken away.

ShandyDrinker
29th November 2016, 09:02
It has become almost impossible to find IT jobs and contracts in UK.


Has it? News to me.

Is it just me, or are many of the "there are no jobs, ban ICT's" posters on this thread struggling with basic grammar in their posts? (Not just the OP). Perhaps this is hindering their ability to find roles :smile

FWIW, some organisations do appear to abuse ICT's. In my experience it has created as much work recovering failed projects as it has taken away.

I think the OP was perhaps over-egging it with the statement that it has become almost impossible.

However, in my experience it has certainly become a lot more difficult to get contracts in the last 18 months than at any point since start of the financial crisis. Some of this may be attributed to immigration, ICT abuse and so on but many on here (me included) may have to accept that the market for your particular niche has moved to your disadvantage. Perhaps there's an oversupply of people for your skillset, perhaps clients are moving away from a particular technology.

To say it is all down to ICT abuse and immigration is far too simplistic but along with many I suspect than it certainly exacerbates the problem.

eek
29th November 2016, 09:23
However, in my experience it has certainly become a lot more difficult to get contracts in the last 18 months than at any point since start of the financial crisis.

The thing is that this isn't true for everyone - I know I'm not having problems but that's because I've moved towards a carefully picked niche rather than remaining a straightforward developer.

The manta from a lot of people around here for years has been to get up the food chain, specialise or ensure you are 100% customer facing. And if you haven't done one of those three you really are going to have problems.

MrMarkyMark
29th November 2016, 09:42
The thing is that this isn't true for everyone - I know I'm not having problems but that's because I've moved towards a carefully picked niche rather than remaining a straightforward developer.

The manta from a lot of people around here for years has been to get up the food chain, specialise or ensure you are 100% customer facing. And if you haven't done one of those three you really are going to have problems.

I have always done all three of those, especially when I saw the way things were going with offshoring.

SueEllen
29th November 2016, 09:53
The thing is that this isn't true for everyone - I know I'm not having problems but that's because I've moved towards a carefully picked niche rather than remaining a straightforward developer.

The manta from a lot of people around here for years has been to get up the food chain, specialise or ensure you are 100% customer facing. And if you haven't done one of those three you really are going to have problems.

+1

The advice (and rants) from posters on here over the years has been very helpful.

SussexSeagull
29th November 2016, 16:07
If there is an immigration related problem for contractors I would have thought it more the Indian's who came in a few years ago and now have leave to remain. That said it is only one of a few contributing factors including offshoring and the market being swamped by native born contractors sick of wage stagnation.

That said, I think ICTs cause a problem with people trying to start off in the industry.

DimPrawn
4th December 2016, 14:14
These online petitions are worthless.

Even if you had 10,000,000 "signatures", you would get a stock response from the govt saying:

We already have a work permit system
The system is perfect and works in everyone's best interests
The market and economy is constantly monitored
The number and type of visa available perfectly matches what is required
We see no reason to change anything.


Basically the same stock answer to every petition put before the government.


Don't waste your time, the only small effect we have as concerned citizens, is at the general election.

SueEllen
4th December 2016, 23:15
These online petitions are worthless.

Even if you had 10,000,000 "signatures", you would get a stock response from the govt saying:

We already have a work permit system
The system is perfect and works in everyone's best interests
The market and economy is constantly monitored
The number and type of visa available perfectly matches what is required
We see no reason to change anything.


Basically the same stock answer to every petition put before the government.


Don't waste your time, the only small effect we have as concerned citizens, is at the general election.

And if you have a by-election you can really have fun...