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scooterscot
11th May 2017, 11:13
He's quite correct. It is no mirror position nevertheless that doesn't stop Murdoch's faithful putting propaganda before reason.

What a @£$@£ mess.



The Brexit trap that's closing on Britons who live in Europe

Lisa O'CarrollThursday 11 May 2017 07.00 BST
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner
Bernadette and Alan Faulkner: we face being ‘locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives’. Photograph: Dominik Gigler/the Guardian
Brexit negotiations will leave UK citizens in Europe in a far worse position than EU citizens in the UK, a group of British professionals living in Germany has warned.

There are about 100,000 Britons living in Germany. On Monday, discussions held by a group of about 50 of them in Munich focused on concerns that neither European nor British governments have fully understood the severity of the consequences of Brexit for people in their position.

Briton David Hole, who has lived and practised law in Germany since 1993, pointed out that the fact that EU citizens in the UK will still be part of the union will put them in a significantly stronger position than their British counterparts in Europe.

“You regularly see the 3 million EU citizens in the UK and 1.2 million UK citizens in the EU in the same sentence as if they are in mirror positions,” he said. “They are not. UK citizens will lose all their rights, EU citizens do not. We are in a far worse position.”

UK citizens living in Europe will end up with fewer rights than EU citizens living in the UK after Brexit and fear they could be “locked in” to the country where they have moved to, it has emerged.

The rights UK nationals acquired under EU law to live, work, set up a business or provide services will all fall away on Brexit day, Hole told a group of about 50 British nationals at a meeting in Munich on Monday. This was the second meeting of the impromptu group, which represents just a sliver of the estimated 18,000 Britons settled in Bavaria, 6,000 of whom are in Munich.

The group is anxious that the voice of British working professionals who live in Europe is not drowned out by the better known challenges facing the likes of pensioners on the Costa del Sol.

Some have chosen to live abroad to broaden their horizons, others because their companies moved there. But their concerns are the same – they worry that their professional qualifications may not be recognised post Brexit, that their right to work and advance their careers will be blighted and that in retirement they will not be able to draw on a pension they may have aggregated in two or three countries in their careers.

“EU citizens won’t lose their rights, they simply won’t be able to use them while they live in the UK,” Hole said. “They will still have the right to live in another EU country, the right to work there, the right to freedom of movement, the right to have their qualifications recognised.

British expats in Spain count the Costa Brexit
“Our position is we will have none of these,” he went on. “The 1.2 million UK citizens living in Europe will lose all their acquired EU rights after Brexit. How we address that remains a question here.”

Hole said the plight of EU citizens in the UK has “hideous” personal consequences. However, he said his point is that their situation can be resolved by one government, the British government, whereas the plight of the British in Germany for instance involves agreement of 27 member states.

“I, as a UK citizen, lose my European citizen rights in 27 countries, other EU nationals lose their rights in one country the UK. Hardly a good deal for the UK and certainly not democratic or fair to those UK nationals who live in other parts of the EU,” said Bernadette Faulkner, who has lived in Munich with her British husband, Alan, since 1977.

They are now retired but are concerned about their own future right to move. “Even assuming that the Brexit negotiations guarantee our acquired EU right of abode in Germany, we are essentially locked into living in Germany for the rest of our lives because our right to live in other EU states will be lost,” Alan said.

People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting.
People discuss their concerns about the rights of British people living in Germany at the meeting. Photograph: Dominik Gigler for the Guardian
“The EU citizens in the UK will be able to travel freely if they want they go to another country. I can’t. I have two opportunities – one is to remain here for the rest of my life or the second is to go back to the UK. We are landlocked,” he added.

Others at the meeting expressed concern that professional rights may not be recognised post Brexit. Actuary Zawar Saleemi, who has worked in financial services in Munich for 18 months, said: “In the post-Brexit world, I won’t have the ability to move around. I may even have to stay with one employer if I want to stay in Munich,” he said.

Ken Gray, 53, a Scot who came to Germany 15 years ago, runs the German arm of engineering company Verilab. He said he is concerned that his British staff may not be able to move around Europe easily any more. “What will their status be in Germany? Will they be able to move around Europe to visit clients?”

Many of those at the meeting spoke of their anger and frustration at not being able to vote following the government’s failure to deliver its 2015 manifesto promise that those who have lived overseas for longer than 15 years would be allowed to vote in general elections.

British in Europe, a coalition representing 11 different groups across Europe lobbying for UK citizens’ rights post Brexit, has urged Theresa May to renew the Conservative’s pledge to give all those overseas the vote.

In a letter to the prime minister, lawyer Jane Golding told her: “There is consternation, and anger, at the failure by the government to honour its 2015 general election manifesto pledge to introduce votes for life.”

source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/11/the-brexit-trap-thats-closing-on-britons-who-live-in-europe#comment-98323941

doconline
11th May 2017, 11:50
He's quite correct. It is no mirror position nevertheless that doesn't stop Murdoch's faithful putting propaganda before reason.

What a @£$@£ mess.

<snip>
Guardian quote
</snip>



I'm not sure what they are expecting. Why would they think they should have the right to go and live in one of the other EU countries that they don't currently reside in should the mood tale them? They have no ties to those countries, except for the current agreement as being part of the EU. They are not tied in to living in Germany / Spain etc forever, they will just have to go through the same channels as they would if they wanted to move to another country outside the EU now should they wish to move to a different country.

vetran
11th May 2017, 11:55
You mean the nasty horrible EU doesn't want them, pity.

BlasterBates
11th May 2017, 12:12
Brexit going according to "plan"

Brexit continuing as planned (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-industrial-output-shrink-third-month-row-2017-a7729631.html)

AtW
11th May 2017, 12:14
Sterling too strong - in order for Brexit to have any chance of success the exchange rates should be roughly 1 euro for £1000000000000000.

HTH

BlasterBates
11th May 2017, 12:16
meanwhile on the continent:

Germany economy barreling ahead (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-output-idUSKBN1850H7)

This will put the UK in a strong negotiating position as it will threaten to collapse its economy in retaliation for a Hard Brexit.

Mordac
11th May 2017, 12:27
He's quite correct. It is no mirror position nevertheless that doesn't stop Murdoch's faithful putting propaganda before reason.

What a @£$@£ mess.




source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/11/the-brexit-trap-thats-closing-on-britons-who-live-in-europe#comment-98323941

Two questions: What does a Graun article have to do with Murdoch? And secondly, if the nasty British are giving generous rights to EU citizens in the UK, shouldn't you be asking why the lovely Europeans aren't doing the same? You shouldn't expect the EU to deal with any of this, they'll pass the responsibility on to individual governments, as usual.
Or you could of course take your default position - blame the bastard English bastards.

NotAllThere
11th May 2017, 12:29
And secondly, if the nasty British are giving generous rights to EU citizens in the UK, shouldn't you be asking why the lovely Europeans aren't doing the same? You shouldn't expect the EU to deal with any of this, they'll pass the responsibility on to individual governments, as usual. I think you've misunderstood. They're just pointing out the rather obvious point that the situation of EU citizens in the UK is rather better than that of UK citizens in the EU. Not because of any country (or the EU) being nice or nasty - just that it is an inevitable consequence of brexit. The EU would have to be extraordinarily nice to Brits resident in the EU for that to change. The rights in question are the rights held by virtue of being an EU citizen - Brits are going to lose those rights.

Worst case is that Brits left in the EU will need to apply for a Schengen visa to travel around the Schengen zone, just like resident yanks do. Of course they won't be able to work or settle outside their country of residence - why would anyone expect them to? According to the Vienna Convention and the Convention on Human rights, they won't be deported.

SandyD
11th May 2017, 13:29
I don't get it, if Brit is living in EU an for a few years, then they can apply for residency and passport of that EU country, then get EU rights and UK rights... what's the issue?

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 13:31
I don't get it, if Brit is living in EU an for a few years, then they can apply for residency and passport of that EU country, then get EU rights and UK rights... what's the issue?

Citizenship will give them EU rights, but residency will only apply to the country itself. Citizenship is the way to go.

Eirikur
11th May 2017, 13:32
I don't get it, if Brit is living in EU an for a few years, then they can apply for residency and passport of that EU country, then get EU rights and UK rights... what's the issue?

minimum 5 years for most countries before they can apply for PR and several countries do not allow for dual nationality, but once you have PR you should be fine.

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 13:33
minimum 5 years for most countries before they can apply for PR and several countries do not allow for dual nationality, but once you have PR you should be fine.

Are you muddling citizenship with residency?

scooterscot
11th May 2017, 13:34
I don't get it, if Brit is living in EU an for a few years, then they can apply for residency and passport of that EU country, then get EU rights and UK rights... what's the issue?

For me it's language. Also in Germany you'll not be allowed to stay unless you can demonstrate income upon retirement.

In short a EU passport is needed. Having residency for one country is not an answer. I work in several EU countries.

BlasterBates
11th May 2017, 13:47
Citizenship will give them EU rights, but residency will only apply to the country itself. Citizenship is the way to go.

Permanent residency applies to all EU countries inside Schengen. So if you gain permanent residency in Spain then you also automatically have permanent residency rights in France.

Therefore citizenship shouldn't be necessary.

SandyD
11th May 2017, 13:48
I don't think 5 years is that long??
In the UK non EU immigrants have to wait 10 years (but varies according to circumstances and on which visa they entered the country).
If they are retired and already living in Germany they could probably get their citizenship before Brexist is even completed ... the way its going its going to take years.

If you need to work in several EU countries, they you can be resident of one, and just travel for work to another during the week days, or negotiate every other week travel to satisfy the residency rules... or take local roles until you get the residency / citizenship and whatever you need

NotAllThere
11th May 2017, 13:51
Are you muddling citizenship with residency?I think they are. I have permanent residency in CH - but I'm not a citizen, don't get a Swiss passport, I don't get to vote, and won't have Swiss rights in the EU. However, PR means that at I can stay here, and have most rights within Switzerland that the Swiss do. But I'll be applying for Swiss citizenship in a couple of years. Just need to get a B1 German certificate and begin the process. My daughters just got notification of approval at community and cantonal level for their citizenship. Half my family could be Swiss by the end of the year.

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 13:53
Permanent residency applies to all EU countries inside Schengen. So if you gain permanent residency in Spain then you also automatically have permanent residency rights in France.

Therefore citizenship shouldn't be necessary.

Are you sure?

Paddy
11th May 2017, 13:55
I don't get it, if Brit is living in EU an for a few years, then they can apply for residency and passport of that EU country, then get EU rights and UK rights... what's the issue?

You will only get EU rights with an EU passport. Even getting a residency permit in another EU country citizen is not straight forward. I have first-hand experience of that. That aside my passport application is pending.

The regulations for residency post Brexit will be more stringent, those relying solely on a UK pension as proof of income will fail to meet the criteria. I expect that some of the retirees in Spain will be told to leave.

SandyD
11th May 2017, 13:56
How would it work for Ireland? They sort of agreed no hard borders, does it mean I can relocate to Ireland for a few years, get residency / citizinship then Bob's yer uncle... problem solved?

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 13:58
How would it work for Ireland? They sort of agreed no hard borders, does it mean I can relocate to Ireland for a few years, get residency / citizinship then Bob's yer uncle... problem solved?

Yes. 5 years' residency. In the meantime as a British citizen in Ireland you have almost all the rights of an Irish citizen, except voting in constitutional referenda.

stek
11th May 2017, 14:01
I don't think 5 years is that long??
In the UK non EU immigrants have to wait 10 years (but varies according to circumstances and on which visa they entered the country).
If they are retired and already living in Germany they could probably get their citizenship before Brexist is even completed ... the way its going its going to take years.

If you need to work in several EU countries, they you can be resident of one, and just travel for work to another during the week days, or negotiate every other week travel to satisfy the residency rules... or take local roles until you get the residency / citizenship and whatever you need

Five years via family or work visas in U.K.. 10 year any legal stay, i.e. Combination of work and student or oddball routes like FLR(FP).

Or 20 years any stay.

stek
11th May 2017, 14:02
How would it work for Ireland? They sort of agreed no hard borders, does it mean I can relocate to Ireland for a few years, get residency / citizinship then Bob's yer uncle... problem solved?

After five years residency, yes.

SandyD
11th May 2017, 14:02
Yes. 5 years' residency. In the meantime as a British citizen in Ireland you have almost all the rights of an Irish citizen, except voting in constitutional referenda.

OK, so for example if I want to live in France or Spain, I first have to go to Ireland, live there for 5 years, then make my way to the Mediterranean :eek :laugh

stek
11th May 2017, 14:04
Permanent residency applies to all EU countries inside Schengen. So if you gain permanent residency in Spain then you also automatically have permanent residency rights in France.

Therefore citizenship shouldn't be necessary.

Lets not confuse EU with Schengen....

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 14:08
OK, so for example if I want to live in France or Spain, I first have to go to Ireland, live there for 5 years, then make my way to the Mediterranean :eek :laugh

I spent a very warm day on the beach on Sunday.

meridian
11th May 2017, 14:19
How would it work for Ireland? They sort of agreed no hard borders, does it mean I can relocate to Ireland for a few years, get residency / citizinship then Bob's yer uncle... problem solved?

Depends on whether you are allowed residency for 5 years. At the moment the U.K. Is part of the EU so freedom of movement applies. After Brexit, there may not be freedom of movement.

Go now, if you're serious....

SandyD
11th May 2017, 14:24
Depends on whether you are allowed residency for 5 years. At the moment the U.K. Is part of the EU so freedom of movement applies. After Brexit, there may not be freedom of movement.

Go now, if you're serious....

To Ireland?? :alien :sick
I am working int he EU / Scandinavia now, but one week at EU one week from London... think Brexit will take years and years... but if May wins, I know for sure it will be hard Brexit with no negotiation for free movement... if JC wins there is hope.

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 14:26
Depends on whether you are allowed residency for 5 years. At the moment the U.K. Is part of the EU so freedom of movement applies. After Brexit, there may not be freedom of movement.

Go now, if you're serious....

UK / Ireland freedom of movement pre-dates the EU and will persist afterwards. From the UK perspective the Ireland Act 1949 states:


2.(1) It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly.

This defines a unique relationship. British citizens have similar unique rights in Ireland.

The_Equalizer
11th May 2017, 14:29
Yes. 5 years' residency. In the meantime as a British citizen in Ireland you have almost all the rights of an Irish citizen, except voting in constitutional referenda.

Or get hitched to one and do it in three. That said, it's not quite like swapping the coat you are wearing.

"You must have made a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State."

Becoming an Irish citizen through marriage or civil partnership - www.citizensinformation.ie (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage.html)

Whatever happened to loyality to the country of your birth? Must be out of fashion.

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 14:35
Or get hitched to one and do it in three.

Only 10 months to go.


That said, it's not quite like swapping the coat you are wearing.


In fact it's not swapping at all as dual citizenship is allowed. It's like buying a new coat for best because your old coat got puked on by a Scottish ex-squaddie on an ill-advised night out in Barnstaple.



Whatever happened to loyality [sic] to the country of your birth? Must be out of fashion.

See below.


Brexit

Name given to the national IQ test that was taken by 72% of the British population on Thursday 23rd June 2016. Failure rate 51.9%.

Bee
11th May 2017, 14:38
Permanent residency applies to all EU countries inside Schengen. So if you gain permanent residency in Spain then you also automatically have permanent residency rights in France.

Therefore citizenship shouldn't be necessary.

For an EU citizen, you can live for 3 months in another country without restrictions, if more than 3 months you have to justify why, ex: work, study, etc...Permanent residence after 5 years.

If you move to another country you have to pass to all this process again.

The_Equalizer
11th May 2017, 14:44
Only 10 months to go.



In fact it's not swapping at all as dual citizenship is allowed. It's like buying a new coat for best because your old coat got puked on by a Scottish ex-squaddie on an ill-advised night out in Barnstaple.



See below.

Hi my name is northernladyuk and I'm British-Irish. Dare you to give it a try down the local pub. :wink

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 14:45
Hi my name is northernladyuk and I'm British-Irish. Dare you to give it a try down the local pub. :wink

The country is changing fast. There was a lesbian couple smoking weed on the beach on Sunday.

VectraMan
11th May 2017, 14:47
Whatever happened to loyality to the country of your birth? Must be out of fashion.

I'm sure most expats would like to stay loyal to the country of their birth. But when the country of your birth is actively trying to shaft you and your citizenship has become a hindrance at best and an embarrassment at worse, then you can understand.

EU FOM applied at the same time to UK and Ireland so there was never any conflict with the existing rules. There could be in future especially if we end up with a hard border. Ireland may wish to join Schengen ;something they were prevented from doing by the UK.

The_Equalizer
11th May 2017, 14:49
The country is changing fast. There was a lesbian couple smoking weed on the beach on Sunday.

They'll be sorting out the Irish blasphemy law next... :wink

The_Equalizer
11th May 2017, 14:54
I'm sure most expats would like to stay loyal to the country of their birth. But when the country of your birth is actively trying to shaft you and your citizenship has become a hindrance at best and an embarrassment at worse, then you can understand.

EU FOM applied at the same time to UK and Ireland so there was never any conflict with the existing rules. There could be in future especially if we end up with a hard border. Ireland may wish to join Schengen ;something they were prevented from doing by the UK.

Whatever your thoughts on Brexit the Government has repeatedly tried to ensure UK citizens' rights from an early stage. From gov.uk (The government's negotiating objectives for exiting the EU: PM speech - 17th January (https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech)):

"6. Rights for EU nationals in Britain, and British nationals in the EU

Fairness demands that we deal with another issue as soon as possible too. We want to guarantee the rights of EU citizens who are already living in Britain, and the rights of British nationals in other member states, as early as we can.

I have told other EU leaders that we could give people the certainty they want straight away, and reach such a deal now.

Many of them favour such an agreement – 1 or 2 others do not – but I want everyone to know that it remains an important priority for Britain – and for many other member states – to resolve this challenge as soon as possible. Because it is the right and fair thing to do."

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 15:01
They'll be sorting out the Irish blasphemy law next... :wink

I agree. But you have to look not just at where the country is now, but the direction and speed of change.

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 15:04
I'm sure most expats would like to stay loyal to the country of their birth. But when the country of your birth is actively trying to shaft you and your citizenship has become a hindrance at best and an embarrassment at worse, then you can understand.

EU FOM applied at the same time to UK and Ireland so there was never any conflict with the existing rules. There could be in future especially if we end up with a hard border. Ireland may wish to join Schengen ;something they were prevented from doing by the UK.

Ireland was not prevented from joining Schengen by the UK. But Ireland cannot choose both Schengen and the Common Travel Area. Pretty clear that Ireland will stick with the Common Travel Area.

The hard border is more likely to be for goods and services.

The_Equalizer
11th May 2017, 15:04
I agree. But you have to look not just at where the country is now, but the direction and speed of change.

It was a friendly joke. I'll stick my head over the border wall shortly. :wink

northernladyuk
11th May 2017, 15:05
It was a friendly joke. I'll stick my head over the border wall shortly. :wink

My colleagues in Belfast refer to my colleagues in Dublin as 'Mexico'.

Paddy
11th May 2017, 15:06
The country is changing fast. There was a lesbian couple smoking weed on the beach on Sunday.

I would have thought seaweed would be too salty and wet for smoking.

BlasterBates
11th May 2017, 15:10
I'm sure most expats would like to stay loyal to the country of their birth. But when the country of your birth is actively trying to shaft you and your citizenship has become a hindrance at best and an embarrassment at worse, then you can understand.

EU FOM applied at the same time to UK and Ireland so there was never any conflict with the existing rules. There could be in future especially if we end up with a hard border. Ireland may wish to join Schengen ;something they were prevented from doing by the UK.

Absolutely. When you look at the UK from the outside, it's clear they've lost it, especially reading the tripe in the Daily Mail and Express.

Expats are flooding the local authorities with applications for foreign citizenship.

AtW
11th May 2017, 15:12
Poor aliens...


http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/lg/public/2016/04/05/admiral-ackbar.png

VectraMan
11th May 2017, 16:38
Whatever your thoughts on Brexit the Government has repeatedly tried to ensure UK citizens' rights from an early stage. From gov.uk (The government's negotiating objectives for exiting the EU: PM speech - 17th January (https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech)):

"6. Rights for EU nationals in Britain, and British nationals in the EU

Fairness demands that we deal with another issue as soon as possible too. We want to guarantee the rights of EU citizens who are already living in Britain, and the rights of British nationals in other member states, as early as we can.

I have told other EU leaders that we could give people the certainty they want straight away, and reach such a deal now.

Many of them favour such an agreement – 1 or 2 others do not – but I want everyone to know that it remains an important priority for Britain – and for many other member states – to resolve this challenge as soon as possible. Because it is the right and fair thing to do."

Yes of course it's all the fault of the big bad EU and not the people that decided to tear up years of progress.

The problem is nobody actually knows what "rights" really means. Probably everyone who has lived in the UK/EU for long enough will get the right to stay, but that doesn't guarantee the same rights as in the EU especially when it comes to healthcare or pensions. And when you read stories like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years

that happen whilst we're still in the EU, I don't think anyone should be giving the UK authorities the benefit of the doubt.

squarepeg
12th May 2017, 06:16
Absolutely. When you look at the UK from the outside, it's clear they've lost it, especially reading the tripe in the Daily Mail and Express.

Expats are flooding the local authorities with applications for foreign citizenship.

My Polish colleague told me the local media in Poland report that their national archives have been overwhelmed with requests for documents required to prove Polish ancestry, which you may need if you want to obtain Polish citizenship. I'm not sure how that works. On the other hand, Polish citizenship is hard to loose. If you don't want it anymore you have to pay quite a lot of money, send a letter to the President and wait... there is no timescale for the reply, no appeals procedure, and no explanation will be given if the President refuses to grant your wish.

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 07:58
Yes of course it's all the fault of the big bad EU and not the people that decided to tear up years of progress.

The problem is nobody actually knows what "rights" really means. Probably everyone who has lived in the UK/EU for long enough will get the right to stay, but that doesn't guarantee the same rights as in the EU especially when it comes to healthcare or pensions. And when you read stories like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years

that happen whilst we're still in the EU, I don't think anyone should be giving the UK authorities the benefit of the doubt.

Given it appears to be the EU playing hard ball then, on balance, I take the government's statement as genuine.

We seem to have a lot of contractors making a handsome living in Europe, and presumably paying tax there too, feeling a bit put out about by a decision made by those who still live and work here in the UK. The other side seem to be a lot of contractors who have come to live and work in the UK, presumably because the pay and conditions far outstrip anything offered in their country of birth, giving off too.

How many have contacted their MEP to express their concerns?

For the 'CUK record' I would welcome a reciprocal arrangement as outlined by May in her Lancaster House speech.

northernladyuk
12th May 2017, 08:00
Given it appears to be the EU playing hard ball then, on balance, I take the government's statement as genuine.

We seem to have a lot of contractors making a handsome living in Europe, and presumably paying tax there too, feeling a bit put out about by a decision made by those who still live and work here in the UK. The other side seem to be a lot of contractors who have come to live and work in the UK, presumably because the pay and conditions far outstrip anything offered in their country of birth, giving off too.

How many have contacted their MEP to express their concerns?

For the 'CUK record' I would welcome a reciprocal arrangement as outlined by May in her Lancaster House speech.

Says the man entitled to an EU passport.

shaunbhoy
12th May 2017, 08:02
Says the man entitled to an EU passport.

Says the man(?) that is desperately trying to OBTAIN an EU passport.

:wink

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 08:03
Says the man entitled to an EU passport.

In theory. The fact is the thought of obtaining one never crossed my mind. The kids and wife have British ones.

northernladyuk
12th May 2017, 08:08
In theory. The fact is the thought of obtaining one never crossed my mind. The kids and wife have British ones.

In theory, therefore in reality. Good to know you've got privileged access to the lifeboat?

Even Ian Paisley Jr recommends your family get Irish passports.

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/06/25/11/ian-paisley-jr-northern-ireland-mp-unionist.jpg

Ian Paisley Jr urges Northern Irish citizens to apply for Republic of Ireland passports | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/unionist-ian-paisley-jr-mp-constituents-apply-republic-of-ireland-eire-passports-a7102761.html)

vetran
12th May 2017, 08:09
Given it appears to be the EU playing hard ball then, on balance, I take the government's statement as genuine.

We seem to have a lot of contractors making a handsome living in Europe, and presumably paying tax there too, feeling a bit put out about by a decision made by those who still live and work here in the UK. The other side seem to be a lot of contractors who have come to live and work in the UK, presumably because the pay and conditions far outstrip anything offered in their country of birth, giving off too.

How many have contacted their MEP to express their concerns?

For the 'CUK record' I would welcome a reciprocal arrangement as outlined by May in her Lancaster House speech.


Indeed you wanna be Europeans talk to your MEP. About time they did something.

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 08:16
In theory, therefore in reality. Good to know you've got privileged access to the lifeboat?

If you knew my missus you'd appreciate what a high price I pay. :wink

northernladyuk
12th May 2017, 08:21
If you knew my missus you'd appreciate what a high price I pay. :wink

We all know your missus. She's a good girl.

sasguru
12th May 2017, 08:35
In theory, therefore in reality. Good to know you've got privileged access to the lifeboat?

Even Ian Paisley Jr recommends your family get Irish passports.

Ian Paisley Jr urges Northern Irish citizens to apply for Republic of Ireland passports | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/unionist-ian-paisley-jr-mp-constituents-apply-republic-of-ireland-eire-passports-a7102761.html)

Nigel Farage has said, apparently with no sense of irony whatsoever, that if things go bad post-Brexit, he'll leave the country.
You gotta laugh.:laugh:laugh

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 08:36
Nigel Farage has said, apparently with no sense of irony whatsoever, that if things go bad post-Brexit, he'll leave the country.
You gotta laugh.:laugh:laugh

When are you off?

sasguru
12th May 2017, 09:03
When are you off?

Maybe never. Currently I work from home for clients across Europe - not sure why that would end.
Maybe better to stay here and smugly flaunt my cash as those Brexiters who are less flexibly set up (which is most) suffer for their uninformed decisions. :laugh

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 09:12
Maybe never. Currently I work from home for clients across Europe - not sure why that would end.
Maybe better to stay here and smugly flaunt my cash as those Brexiters who are less flexibly set up (which is most) suffer for their uninformed decisions. :laugh

Who'd of thought it.

http://i2.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article10431028.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS75918499.jpg

darmstadt
12th May 2017, 09:33
Who'd of thought it.

http://i2.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article10431028.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/JS75918499.jpg

Wasn't that under the last lot of Tories who didn't give a damn about the people :laugh

NotAllThere
12th May 2017, 09:58
Maybe never. Currently I work from home for clients across Europe - not sure why that would end.
Maybe better to stay here and smugly flaunt my cash as those Brexiters who are less flexibly set up (which is most) suffer for their uninformed decisions. :laughWhy stay in a 3rd world country? It's not even as though the weather is good.


Who'd of thought it.
http://www.findingninee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Should1-1024x481(pp_w773_h363).gif

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 10:13
Why stay in a 3rd world country? It's not even as though the weather is good.


http://www.findingninee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Should1-1024x481(pp_w773_h363).gif

Fair point. You'd have thought I would have remembered that from when I was at school. :wink

vetran
12th May 2017, 10:59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ4Yq6n_EFc

northernladyuk
12th May 2017, 11:23
Fair point. You'd have thought I would have remembered that from when I was at school. :wink

Did they teach grammar at the School of Hard Knocks?

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 11:27
Did they teach grammar at the School of Hard Knocks?

Greater London comp such was my mother's socialist tendencies. Still managed to get the same qualifications as SASGuru though and save my parents a few bob in the process. :wink

vetran
12th May 2017, 11:30
Greater London comp such was my mother's socialist tendencies. Still managed to get the same qualifications as SASGuru though and save my parents a few bob in the process. :wink

and you don't come across as a complete knob

all good!

northernladyuk
12th May 2017, 11:33
Greater London comp such was my mother's socialist tendencies. Still managed to get the same qualifications as SASGuru though and save my parents a few bob in the process. :wink

Did you have to resit your A Levels, like SAS?

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 11:35
Did you have to resit your A Levels, like SAS?

Yes. :laugh

sasguru
12th May 2017, 12:28
Greater London comp such was my mother's socialist tendencies. Still managed to get the same qualifications as SASGuru though and save my parents a few bob in the process. :wink

Problem is your worthless bits of paper don't make up for your paucity of talent - or your inability to master your native tongue.

BrilloPad
12th May 2017, 12:30
Problem is your worthless bits of paper don't make up for your paucity of talent - or your ability to master your native tongue.

Nurse! Hes escaped again....

SueEllen
12th May 2017, 12:33
Problem is your worthless bits of paper don't make up for your paucity of talent - or your inability to master your native tongue.

What do you have against Comp educated people?

BrilloPad
12th May 2017, 12:34
What do you have against Comp educated people?

Did he say anything about them? He certainly said he was thick and could not speak English. It was not put down to comps though? :confused:

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 13:19
Problem is your worthless bits of paper don't make up for your paucity of talent - or your inability to master your native tongue.

How much did your old man pay again?

vetran
12th May 2017, 13:23
Problem is your worthless bits of paper don't make up for your paucity of talent - or your inability to master your native tongue.

Good to see you coming across as a complete knobby snob as usual, how bad breeding shows!

sasguru
12th May 2017, 13:35
How much did your old man pay again?

Non sequitur. I rest my case.

sasguru
12th May 2017, 13:37
Good to see you coming across as a complete knobby snob as usual, how bad breeding shows!

Yeah you showed your breeding when you took the piss out of a foreigner who knew your native tongue better than you did, so much so that you thought he'd made a mistake. :laugh:laugh:laugh
You gotta larf!

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 13:38
Non sequitur. I rest my case.

It wasn't one of those cheap public schools? You know, the ones that no one has ever heard of.

sasguru
12th May 2017, 13:41
It wasn't one of those cheap public schools? You know, the ones that no one has ever heard of.

Non sequitur. I rest my case.

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 13:44
Non sequitur. I rest my case.

More like I rest my case. Cheapo public school eh!

BrilloPad
12th May 2017, 13:47
Non sequitur. I rest my case.

Good to see you are keeping the "strong and stable leadership" going. The Tory manifesto is going to be that written on the side of the battle bus.

vetran
12th May 2017, 13:50
Yeah you showed your breeding when you took the piss out of a foreigner who knew your native tongue better than you did, so much so that you thought he'd made a mistake. :laugh:laugh:laugh
You gotta larf!

He used Ingrish just like Revert & Updation. In context I found it funny, these are part of life's rich pattern. However I clearly admitted his English was much better than my Hindi not sure how that is taking the piss?

Then of course you probably saw it as an attack as you are always trying to make yourself appear better than others, do you have a secret inferiority complex? Little winky problems?

The_Equalizer
12th May 2017, 13:54
He used Ingrish just like Revert & Updation. In context I found it funny, these are part of life's rich pattern. However I clearly admitted his English was much better than my Hindi not sure how that is taking the piss?

Then of course you probably saw it as an attack as you are always trying to make yourself appear better than others, do you have a secret inferiority complex? Little winky problems?

I'm guessing he's got OCPD.