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View Full Version : Brexit - Do you think we can just ask everyone nicely to forget about it



milanbenes
12th June 2017, 11:52
Afternoon All,

well, as recent events have shown the country doesn't want Brexit, and now the Government and everybody are starting to water down Brexit to the point where there is no Brexit, do you think if we just ask Brussels nicely to forget about it, and we stop talking about it, it will go away.

I mean, the Elephant in the room was always that nobody wanted Brexit.

Milan.

Dark Black
12th June 2017, 12:00
Afternoon All,

well, as recent events have shown the country doesn't want Brexit, and now the Government and everybody are starting to water down Brexit to the point where there is no Brexit, do you think if we just ask Brussels nicely to forget about it, and we stop talking about it, it will go away.

I mean, the Elephant in the room was always that nobody wanted Brexit.

Milan.

Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 12:05
Absolutely, the General Election has changed everything. It effectively negated the referendum. The government didn't get a majority for their Brexit. The best you can hope for is "Soft Brexit" which will just be a sh*ttier version of membership.

As Anna Soubry said when Andrew Neil challenged her on her demand for a Soft Brexit, "the people have spoken". :laugh

Paddy
12th June 2017, 12:10
Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.

Nearly every person I know who voted for Brexit have changed their minds. Some were hard liners until the farce of the general election.

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 12:20
Nearly every person I know who voted for Brexit have changed their minds. Some were hard liners until the farce of the general election.

It seems pretty evenly split.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post.E2.80.93referendum_ polling

Would be interesting to see some post GE polling.

Pip in a Poke
12th June 2017, 12:20
Absolutely, the General Election has changed everything. It effectively negated the referendum. The government didn't get a majority for their Brexit. The best you can hope for is "Soft Brexit" which will just be a sh*ttier version of membership.

As Anna Soubry said when Andrew Neil challenged her on her demand for a Soft Brexit, "the people have spoken". :laugh

Nonsense.

It was a general election and, as usual, people voted on the various parties' manifestos and the proposals contained therein, some of which were related to Brexit but there was a whole raft of other issues on which people were voting, e.g. the "dementia" tax.

We've had a referendum on whether or not we wish to leave the EU and 52% of the people who voted voted to leave so it's done and dusted.

Get over it.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 12:22
Most people were expecting the Tories to win a landslide in the GE and basically confirm Brexit as after a year of debate everyone is a bit clearer about what it is. But they didn't, so everything is up in the air.

Pip in a Poke
12th June 2017, 12:27
Most people were expecting the Tories to win a landslide in the GE and basically confirm Brexit as after a year of debate everyone is a bit clearer about what it is. But they didn't, so everything is up in the air.

No it's not.

Look at the polls - when the election was called the cons were 20 points in the lead; ostensibly because of the expectation of them getting the Brexit that people voted for.

What blew it was the atrocious campaign, the dementia tax and the subsequent climbdown.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 12:34
No it's not.

Look at the polls - when the election was called the cons were 20 points in the lead; ostensibly because of the expectation of them getting the Brexit that people voted for.

What blew it was the atrocious campaign, the dementia tax and the subsequent climbdown.

That's why there needs to be a second referendum, to clarify, In the first referendum the young didn't vote, they're now motivated.

I think the second referendum is clearly going to happen, and the youth will swing it.

be afraid, be very afraid....:D

NickFitz
12th June 2017, 12:36
It seems pretty evenly split.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post.E2.80.93referendum_ polling

Would be interesting to see some post GE polling.

I saw a poll over the weekend which had 52% remain, 48% leave.

Democracy, innit? :D

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 12:41
Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.


That's why there needs to be a second referendum, to clarify, In the first referendum the young didn't vote, they're now motivated.

I think the second referendum is clearly going to happen, and the youth will swing it.

be afraid, be very afraid....:D

More importantly, we are now being told that Hard Brexit is the only way. There is no democratic mandate for this, as Leave campaigners kept inisisitn that The UK would remain inside the single market.



Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market
Daniel Hannan MEP


Only a madman would actually leave the Market
Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer


Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing
Nigel Farage, Ukip leader


The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people
Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive


Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK
Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

Open Britain Exposes All The Times Brexiters Promised We Wouldn't Leave The Single Market | HuffPost UK (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce)

So we should let the negotiations play out and then have a referendum on accepting the (presumably hard Brexit) deal, or seeking to remain in the EU (if allowed to).

Dark Black
12th June 2017, 12:49
That's why there needs to be a second referendum, to clarify, In the first referendum the young didn't vote, they're now motivated.

I think the second referendum is clearly going to happen, and the youth will swing it.

be afraid, be very afraid....:D

Need a facepalm emoticon...

If the young didn't vote in the Brexit referendum that's their problem, you don't get a second chance just because it didn't go the way you wanted.. who are you, Nicola Sturgeon?

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 12:52
Need a facepalm emoticon...

If the young didn't vote in the Brexit referendum that's their problem, you don't get a second chance just because it didn't go the way you wanted.. who are you, Nicola Sturgeon?

I'm pointing out that the GE which was specifically called to be able to push through Brexit failed. That means everything is back in the air.

The "will of the people".

Of course you can argue there were different reasons why people voted, but then you can argue that about the leave vote, as there were many reasons and not always because the voter wanted to leave.

:D

original PM
12th June 2017, 12:54
I think a lot of young people/students voted labour because Corbyn was promising to abolish university fees

which is about 10k per year

it's a shame that labour did not get in - because I would've to have seen the backlash when he didn't do it.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:10
I'm pointing out that the GE which was specifically called to be able to push through Brexit failed. That means everything is back in the air.

The "will of the people".

Of course you can argue there were different reasons why people voted, but then you can argue that about the leave vote, as there were many reasons and not always because the voter wanted to leave.

:D


WHS

+1

popcorn

Milan.

NickFitz
12th June 2017, 13:14
I think a lot of young people/students voted labour because Corbyn was promising to abolish university fees

which is about 10k per year

it's a shame that labour did not get in - because I would've to have seen the backlash when he didn't do it.

I think a lot of young people voted because they believe society should be about more than feathering your own nest and **** everybody else, and it was the first time in years that there was a politician offering something along those lines.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:14
I think a lot of young people/students voted labour because Corbyn was promising to abolish university fees

which is about 10k per year

it's a shame that labour did not get in - because I would've to have seen the backlash when he didn't do it.


I gotta say, reminder folks, when most of us went to University 20 years or more ago, there were no tuition fees.

Tuition fees came in in 1998 and at that time were 1000pounds a year. Now 10k a year.

So this big argument where will the money come from well it will have to be taken from some other wastage that it was allocated to when it was taken away from Universities

not rocket science is it

Milan.

Big Blue Plymouth
12th June 2017, 13:19
I gotta say, reminder folks, when most of us went to University 20 years or more ago, there were no tuition fees.

Tuition fees came in in 1998 and at that time were 1000pounds a year. Now 10k a year.

So this big argument where will the money come from well it will have to be taken from some other wastage that it was allocated to when it was taken away from Universities

not rocket science is it

Milan.

How about not sending so many people to uni to study Media Studies etc ?

I guess that doesn't fit the egalitarian narrative though....

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:22
How about not sending so many people to uni to study Media Studies etc ?

I guess that doesn't fit the egalitarian narrative though....


agreed,

how about streaming 15yr olds and 16yr olds towards white collar and blue collar so that we don't run out of plumbers and sparks ?

Milan.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:24
I think a lot of young people voted because they believe society should be about more than feathering your own nest and **** everybody else, and it was the first time in years that there was a politician offering something along those lines.

no, the younger generation are not stuck in 1946, they're pro Europe and integration

simple as that

they didn't vote in the Referendum and now they are voting strategically

qed

Milan.

oscarose
12th June 2017, 13:28
Are we sending the bible bashers to the negotiations? :confused:

sal
12th June 2017, 13:30
Need a facepalm emoticon...

If the young didn't vote in the Brexit referendum that's their problem, you don't get a second chance just because it didn't go the way you wanted.. who are you, Nicola Sturgeon?

I wonder why the Brexiteers are so fiercely opposed to a second referendum? May it because they realise that the original vote was "won" only because of blatant lies and misinformation in the Leave campaign and people using it as a protest vote not realising the consequence. And that after an year of discussions on the topic they don't stand a chance of winning again?

If the Government was free to call GE just for kicks, where is the problem in calling a new referendum?

Big Blue Plymouth
12th June 2017, 13:32
agreed,

how about streaming 15yr olds and 16yr olds towards white collar and blue collar so that we don't run out of plumbers and sparks ?

Milan.

Yes, exactly. More vocational courses.

It was Blair who said he wanted 50% of young people going into higher education. Consequently, you get all kinds of things getting dressed up as academic courses.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:32
I wonder why the Brexiteers are so fiercely opposed to a second referendum? May it because they realise that the original vote was "won" only because of blatant lies and misinformation in the Leave campaign and people using it as a protest vote not realising the consequence. And that after an year of discussions on the topic they don't stand a chance of winning again?

If the Government was free to call GE just for kicks, where is the problem in calling a new referendum?

that is the crux of it

icckle Brexiters are scared they'll lose a re-run, and not so confident as they were in their 1.8% majority

Milan.

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 13:34
Yes, exactly. More vocational courses.

It was Blair who said he wanted 50% of young people going into higher education. Consequently, you get all kinds of things getting dressed up as academic courses.


it's probably the tuition fees which contributed to the non-degrees

with the Universities being flooded with money they could cream up any old stupid degree and get some poor sods to fund it

if it was the University's own money, they'd more likely be sticking to a list of course which have some value in the workplace

Scrap the fees and the non-degrees

simple

Milan.

original PM
12th June 2017, 13:45
no, the younger generation are not stuck in 1946, they're pro Europe and integration

simple as that

they didn't vote in the Referendum and now they are voting strategically

qed

Milan.

Really - and at the oh so experienced age of 18-21 they have a better understanding of how the world works then us 'old miserable and highly experienced' 30/40 somethings?

They did not vote in the referendum because they were bone idle and though it would be a remain win.

They voted in this election because Corbyn promised free lollipops and zero tuition fees.

PurpleGorilla
12th June 2017, 13:53
Really - and at the oh so experienced age of 18-21 they have a better understanding of how the world works then us 'old miserable and highly experienced' 30/40 somethings?

They did not vote in the referendum because they were bone idle and though it would be a remain win.

They voted in this election because Corbyn promised a small taste of what previous generations have been handed on a silver platter

FTFY

OwlHoot
12th June 2017, 13:57
What blew it was the atrocious campaign, the dementia tax and the subsequent climbdown.

and not forgetting Corbyn seeming such a nice, agreeable old man, while TM resembles more Cruella de Vil

God some the electorate are as thick as mince, if they judge solely by appearances. :eyes

diseasex
12th June 2017, 13:59
and not forgetting Corbyn seeming such a nice, agreeable old man, while TM resembles more Cruella de Vil

God some the electorate are as thick as mince, judging solely by appearances. :eyes

You had no idea what brexit was until now.
Would you still vote LEAVE had you had the current knowledge? I doubt it highly.

Brexit will be reversed or very very mild.

PurpleGorilla
12th June 2017, 14:01
You had no idea what brexit was until now.
Would you still vote LEAVE had you had the current knowledge? I doubt it highly.

Brexit will be reversed or very very mild.

You still here?

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 14:05
They voted in this election because Corbyn promised a small taste of what previous generations have been handed on a silver platter ----- FTFY



yes precisely my thoughts exactly

would I rather have gone to University 25 years ago or today.... hmmm no tuition fees or 10 grand a year tuition fees


what fecking chance have graduates got when they are saddled with that kind of debt ?

my generation had Loans, about 1k per year and that caused demonstrations, remember the slogans, Grants not Loans

well looking back, we had it easy

sorry for the language, but when I compare what our parents the Baby Boomers had, they had it good, then we Generation X and Y, we didn't have so bad, but the ones these days, they haven't got a chance to stand on their own financial feet

saddled with debt and impossible house prices

what a world to join

Milan.

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 14:13
Really - and at the oh so experienced age of 18-21 they have a better understanding of how the world works then us 'old miserable and highly experienced' 30/40 somethings?

They did not vote in the referendum because they were bone idle and though it would be a remain win.

They voted in this election because Corbyn promised free lollipops and zero tuition fees.

You're still living with your Mum, so you don't have anything to add to the conversation.

tomtomagain
12th June 2017, 14:17
agreed,

how about streaming 15yr olds and 16yr olds towards white collar and blue collar so that we don't run out of plumbers and sparks ?

Milan.

So you decide at 14 who will be a "manager" and who will be a "worker". What a terrible idea. And I know Germany do it but so what?

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 14:20
So you decide at 14 who will be a "manager" and who will be a "tape changer". What a terrible idea. And I know Germany do it but so what?

FTFY

milanbenes
12th June 2017, 14:20
So you decide at 14 who will be a "manager" and who will be a "worker". What a terrible idea. And I know Germany do it but so what?

that's the point isn't it, the stigma, manager and worker, how many "white collar" people are workers and how many are managers, most of us here are workers aren't we, even though we have a white collar

you're right, it works very very well in the Germanic/Hapsburg countries, and it used to work very well in the UK

Milan.

scooterscot
12th June 2017, 14:22
Brexit is dead. Our US 'special relationship' is nothing of the sort. David Cameron has eroded our relationship with EU countries more than any PM in my living memory. The economy is slowing down. This means the debt will now grow faster. What a complete and utter shambles. A general election has cost us £130million, who is paying for it?

At the end of the day it is all about money and the lack we have of it. The government will continue to make rash decisions based on the debt. The country is bankrupt. We should default and get it over with.

PurpleGorilla
12th June 2017, 14:24
Brexit is dead. Our US 'special relationship' is nothing of the sort. David Cameron has eroded our relationship with EU countries more than any PM in my living memory. The economy is slowing down. This means the debt will now grow faster. What a complete and utter shambles. A general election has cost us £130million, who is paying for it?

At the end of the day it is all about money and the lack we have of it. The government will continue to make rash decisions based on the debt. The country is bankrupt. We should default and get it over with.

Boomers have all the money, so they need to pay for it.

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 14:24
Brexit is dead. Our US 'special relationship' is nothing of the sort. David Cameron has eroded our relationship with EU countries more than any PM in my living memory. The economy is slowing down. This means the debt will now grow faster. What a complete and utter shambles. A general election has cost us £130million, who is paying for it?

At the end of the day it is all about money and the lack we have of it. The government will continue to make rash decisions based on the debt. The country is bankrupt. We should default and get it over with.

No, it's stunned.

chopper
12th June 2017, 14:25
It seems pretty evenly split.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post.E2.80.93referendum_ polling

Would be interesting to see some post GE polling.

Those opinion polls do not ask the right question. Polls need to ask "If there was another referendum on whether Britain should remain in the European Union tomorrow, how would you vote?"

chopper
12th June 2017, 14:30
would I rather have gone to University 25 years ago or today....
I was supposed to start University in 1997 but decided to take a year out. In 1998, I would have had to pay tuition fees, so I elected not to go.

Now I earn more than any of my friends who went to Uni.

There is an obsession that anyone should be able to go to Uni, and perhaps that is the problem - increased demand for University places? But I disagree, what is the point going to University for 3-4 years to get a 2:1 in Latin to spend the rest of your days as a receptionist in a hospital?

Some courses (engineering, science, etc) should be more available, and probably at a lower cost, but arty farty ones which are just an excuse to delay entering the real world for a few more years should be more expensive as arguably they will provide less future value to the wider economy.

People should be encouraged into the workplace at 18 rather than bumming for another 3-4 years for no benefit.

BlasterBates
12th June 2017, 14:36
No, it's stunned.

It's like a warrior on the battle field who has just been stabbed, still standing, looks fine from a distance, still yelling but about to fall over.

:D

northernladyuk
12th June 2017, 14:37
Those opinion polls do not ask the right question. Polls need to ask "If there was another referendum on whether Britain should remain in the European Union tomorrow, how would you vote?"

No, but they're the best there is right now.

OwlHoot
12th June 2017, 14:48
It seems pretty evenly split.

Post–referendum polling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Post.E2.80.93referendum_ polling)

Would be interesting to see some post GE polling."

Would also be interesting to find who out is obsessively commissioning all those weekly YouGov polls.

I clicked two or three at random, and the title says "YouGov / The Times". If it is the Times newspaper, known to be fanatically pro-Remain, they are probably desperately hoping the numbers will change, so they can start trumpeting a change of heart and the consequent need for a new referendum. :suicide:

Dark Black
12th June 2017, 16:54
I wonder why the Brexiteers are so fiercely opposed to a second referendum? May it because they realise that the original vote was "won" only because of blatant lies and misinformation in the Leave campaign and people using it as a protest vote not realising the consequence. And that after an year of discussions on the topic they don't stand a chance of winning again?

If the Government was free to call GE just for kicks, where is the problem in calling a new referendum?

Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

Voters are (allegedly) all adults and as such should be able to make their minds up, vote and then live with the majority decision.. Or would you rather have second (or a third or a fourth.. rinse and repeat) referendum every time the vote didn't go your way?

Pathetic.

MTFU.

SueEllen
12th June 2017, 17:31
Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

Voters are (allegedly) all adults and as such should be able to make their minds up, vote and then live with the majority decision.. Or would you rather have second (or a third or a fourth.. rinse and repeat) referendum every time the vote didn't go your way?

Pathetic.

MTFU.

Brexiters have been moaning since the 70s about Europe.

contractorinatractor
12th June 2017, 17:47
Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.

So what? Democracy entails observing a process. Advisory referendum doesn't generally lead to some enacting of the resultant vote.

You do realise that regardless of the result it was purely to inform parliament? No actions were promised as a result of the result to MPs.

I suspect you realise that if this was now binding and a result mentioned the vote would be different. Similarly, the result before could have been different, if actions for each were promised.

In fact I don't actually believe it would be possible to propose ANY binding referendum without a manifesto-style document for each possibility.

Right now our county has zero idea what it's doing, and that's including the MPs. That doesn't worry you in the slightest?

I would be saying this on a 'remain' result and I would similarly call it a whitewash.

Edit: if you're so sure of your own reasoning regarding this referendum process, does it bother you in the slightest that the referendum was advisory? If not, that seems rather weird. What's the difference between an advisory and binding referendum then?

Exactly.

shaunbhoy
12th June 2017, 17:57
In the first referendum the young didn't vote, they're now motivated.



Yeah, motivated by a raft of uncosted freebies promised to them by a scruffy Marxist.
:eyes

squarepeg
12th June 2017, 18:05
Afternoon All,

well, as recent events have shown the country doesn't want Brexit, and now the Government and everybody are starting to water down Brexit to the point where there is no Brexit, do you think if we just ask Brussels nicely to forget about it, and we stop talking about it, it will go away.

I mean, the Elephant in the room was always that nobody wanted Brexit.

Milan.

There is no watering down of Brexit. 52% of voters wanted it, so it's happening. Even Labour want it to happen, so it doesn't matter who wins.

squarepeg
12th June 2017, 18:06
Yeah, motivated by a raft of uncosted freebies promised to them by a scruffy Marxist.
:eyes

With Brexit as an icing on the cake.

VectraMan
12th June 2017, 18:29
Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

Voters are (allegedly) all adults and as such should be able to make their minds up, vote and then live with the majority decision.. Or would you rather have second (or a third or a fourth.. rinse and repeat) referendum every time the vote didn't go your way?

Pathetic.

MTFU.

Dark Black has spoken. Second referendum result can now be discarded and we revert to the result of the first one.

Phew.

darmstadt
12th June 2017, 19:01
Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

Voters are (allegedly) all adults and as such should be able to make their minds up, vote and then live with the majority decision.. Or would you rather have second (or a third or a fourth.. rinse and repeat) referendum every time the vote didn't go your way?

Pathetic.

MTFU.

Like old Adolf :laugh

Dark Black
13th June 2017, 08:29
Like old Adolf :laugh

You should know....

:winker:

northernladyuk
13th June 2017, 11:32
Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.


Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

Voters are (allegedly) all adults and as such should be able to make their minds up, vote and then live with the majority decision.. Or would you rather have second (or a third or a fourth.. rinse and repeat) referendum every time the vote didn't go your way?

Pathetic.

MTFU.

Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017)


Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win
The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'

original PM
13th June 2017, 11:45
Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017)

Yes but when everyone on here ridicules the man, why do they always trot this quote out?

If you think the man is a tit stop quoting him.

BlasterBates
13th June 2017, 11:53
We can have as many referendums as we want.

I think you'll find that most "Remoaners" would be perfectly happy with a referendum every two years if there was a demands for one, even if they won one, there was certainly no out cry when the first one was announced.

The reason why there is such an outcry about a second referendum is because the "winners" know it was a fluke and that 9 times out of 10 they'd lose.

:D

d000hg
13th June 2017, 12:01
Nobody except for the 51.9% majority.... it's called democracy.. get over it.If Labour had got in I'm sure you would've respected that and not complained people had made a stupid choice... or you're a hypocrite who demands democracy is respected only when it agrees with your own view.

Brexit is such a vast and complicated thing that there are really no definitive answers. A multi-year set of negotiations can easily reach the point that by the end, nobody wants what is agreed anymore. Equally each party (or even each MP) has their own vision for what Brexit should look like and what direction to push the negotiations in, so why should the version of Brexit we get come down to who is PM presiding over things.
The referendum left things rather trapped... maybe it should've asked "should we trigger Article 50". As it is the people have spoken and the politicians have agreed to follow them but by the time things are being finalised, that will be years in the past.

d000hg
13th June 2017, 12:03
Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.
That's exactly what you'd have done.

BlasterBates
13th June 2017, 12:08
Nothing wrong with referendums, it's what democracy is all about. I actually quite enjoy them and General elections :D

Before the referendum there was never ending moaning about Europe, in spite of the clear decision in 1975.

BrilloPad
13th June 2017, 12:41
Nothing wrong with referendums, it's what democracy is all about. I actually quite enjoy them and General elections :D

Before the referendum there was never ending moaning about Europe, in spite of the clear decision in 1975.

The clear decision for a common market.

There should have been a referendum on Maastricht. Though even if the UK had voted against, they would probably have been told to keep voting until the right answer was voted for.

northernladyuk
13th June 2017, 12:47
Yes but when everyone on here ridicules the man, why do they always trot this quote out?

If you think the man is a tit stop quoting him.

Always worth showing the hypocrisy of the Brownshirt Brexit patriots.

BlasterBates
13th June 2017, 12:48
The clear decision for a common market.

There should have been a referendum on Maastricht. Though even if the UK had voted against, they would probably have been told to keep voting until the right answer was voted for.

There is surprisingly little difference between "the common market" and the EU, when I worked in the "Common Market" the residents permit was automatic. They only key differences are the Euro, and the parliament. The laws that the UK signed up to haven't expanded because the opted out of virtually all of it, most of them due to the adoption of the Euro. Up until the mid 1980's Labour were trying to get the UK out in spite of the 1975 referendum, and soon after that the Referendum party was founded.

The complaints I hear freedom of movement, too much money going to Brussels and they're stealing our fish all go back to 1975.

bring on the next referendum.

:D

Dark Black
13th June 2017, 16:37
If Labour had got in I'm sure you would've respected that and not complained people had made a stupid choice....

Sure I'd have complained about it - that's called freedom of speech (as is you lot moaning on about Brexit).

What I wouldn't have done is ponced about calling for a second election, because, like it or not there was a majority vote. That's called democracy.

:ladybags:





Can you imagine the grief Brexiteers would get from the remain camp if the result had been the other way round (i.e. stay in the EU) and we kept whining on about a second referendum.

That's exactly what you'd have done.

Oh no I wouldn't...

OwlHoot
13th June 2017, 16:42
Just to wind up blasterbates & co

2017-06-12 The Government’s plans for a ‘Vote Leave’ Brexit are far from derailed (http://brexitcentral.com/governments-plans-vote-leave-brexit-far-derailed/)



... both the Tories and Labour – as well as UKIP, of course – went into this general election standing on a platform of accepting the referendum result. These Pro-Brexit parties got more than 85% of the vote last week.

And yet some of the usual suspects have popped up over the weekend to claim now that the result of the general election is somehow a mandate for a so-called “soft Brexit” – that propaganda term favoured by continuity Remainers to denote remaining party to virtually all of the trappings of the EU, like the single market and customs union. This is a proposition which would be more aptly described as “non-Brexit” and Martin Howe QC’s piece yesterday nailing the myth of “soft Brexit” is essential reading if you haven’t read it already. ...

contractorinatractor
13th June 2017, 18:03
Just to wind up blasterbates & co

2017-06-12 The Government’s plans for a ‘Vote Leave’ Brexit are far from derailed (http://brexitcentral.com/governments-plans-vote-leave-brexit-far-derailed/)

Who created the term 'hard' and 'soft' BREXIT?

The media.

Excluding the usual fibbing media coverage it looks as if the idea is to negotiate the outcome. You didn't vote for hard or soft, you voted to leave the EU in an advisory referendum.

Excluding inflammatory media coverage to rile you up, there is no evidence that 'hard' is indeed the best BREXIT outcome. Just because it's what you personally feel is fitting doesn't mean it will be actioned.

Never did understand this notion of the advisory referendum result suddenly dictating a hard BREXIT. It's only in the minds of those who read the newspapers.

Given the lack of UK governance, we can only hope a commission is created to handle this. It seems implausible for the country to be governed appropriately AND leaving the EU negotiated - too much work for any government.

sasguru
13th June 2017, 18:19
Just to wind up blasterbates & co

2017-06-12 The Government’s plans for a ‘Vote Leave’ Brexit are far from derailed (http://brexitcentral.com/governments-plans-vote-leave-brexit-far-derailed/)

The only people whom a hard Brexit (i.e. exiting the SM and CU and/or no deal with the EU) would benefit are very rich Tories, who want to change this country into a low wage, low rights version of the US.
The other class advocating it are poor and thick Kippers who have no idea what it would entail.

Which group do you belong to?

BrilloPad
13th June 2017, 18:23
The only people whom a hard Brexit (i.e. exiting the SM and CU and/or no deal with the EU) would benefit are very rich Tories, who want to change this country into a low wage, low rights version of the US.
The other class advocating it are poor and thick Kippers who have no idea what it would entail.

Which group do you belong to?

The UK may not get a choice over hard/soft Brexit. There has to be negotiation with the EU. And they are very determined to try to make the UK suffer.

Whether there is hard of soft Brexit, the rich will get richer. Were Korbyn to get in, I would console myself that the rich are going to be cut down to size.

BrilloPad
13th June 2017, 18:25
There is surprisingly little difference between "the common market" and the EU, when I worked in the "Common Market" the residents permit was automatic. They only key differences are the Euro, and the parliament. The laws that the UK signed up to haven't expanded because the opted out of virtually all of it, most of them due to the adoption of the Euro. Up until the mid 1980's Labour were trying to get the UK out in spite of the 1975 referendum, and soon after that the Referendum party was founded.

The complaints I hear freedom of movement, too much money going to Brussels and they're stealing our fish all go back to 1975.

bring on the next referendum.

:D

We agree then. The key difference s parliament. And that means alot to the UK.

Who wants to be ruled by Berlin?

BlasterBates
13th June 2017, 21:06
Just to wind up blasterbates & co

2017-06-12 The Government’s plans for a ‘Vote Leave’ Brexit are far from derailed (http://brexitcentral.com/governments-plans-vote-leave-brexit-far-derailed/)

That does look suspiciously like a propaganda pamphlet desperately trying to revive a Brexit now on the support life machine. :D

Even the Daily Express is expressing doubts on a Hard Brexit. There is no majority in the Commons and the government will come crashing down if they try.

Here is the plan:

The EU offers EEA membership and interminable negotiations extending well into the next century for a comprehensive complex trade deal, with 10 to 20 very thick volumes of fine detail to be hammered out.

The government feebly tries to resist and then caves in.

The only hope for a Hard Brexit was to be able to handle at least a short period on WTO rules to demonstrate the government means business, because the EU would certainly take it that far if there were to be an impasse.

:D

northernladyuk
13th June 2017, 21:39
Macron says the door is still open to remain. The UK does not deserve such generosity but I guess it is a charity case now.

BlasterBates
13th June 2017, 21:51
I have to say Tim Weatherspoon has hit the nail on the head, this is how to get your Hard Brexit:

EU will beg to trade with UK if Brexit talks breakdown, Tim Martin | UK | News | Express.co.uk (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/811437/Brexit-news-Tim-Martin-Wetherspoon-European-Union-beg-trade-UK)

i.e. walk out of the talks and play hard to get.

The downside of the strategy is that it will trash huge sectors of the economy, so requires a huge majority to shove it down peoples' throats.

Now not possible...