Contracting in Ireland - Worth it?

[LordoftheLance]

So I’ve just been offered an interview for a contract role in Dublin. Rate is €800 a day and the contract is 6 months with "probable" extensions.

I’m currently a permie, earning roughly £70k and a generous pension match in England (not London)

I’ve done a bit of research but find it quite confusing. Is it worth accepting a role in Ireland? The things that worry me are:

A) Brexit - will this have an impact on my right to work in Ireland?
B) Tax implications - I’ve done a bit of reading and it looks like “Directors Umbrella” is the way to go. Can anybody summarise how this works as a UK citizen? If I live in Ireland in full time while working there, do I pay tax just like any other Irish citizen? Can I work there for 6-12 months, pay my tax, then bring my earnings back to the UK without any noise from HMRC?
C) General cost of living - would €800 a day leave me better or worse off than £70k over here in the west of England? I hear that Dublin is expensive and if I’m not going through a UK ltd, and living in Ireland full time, I obviously won’t be able to claim for expenses. There’s also a currency risk - after finishing the contract I’d move back to the UK and will therefore want to convert my income to pounds.

Would anybody who has been through this thought process care to share their findings?

[Lance]

Contracting in Ireland - Worth it?

Forget the maths.

Do you want to move to Dublin?
Do you want to be a contractor?

Money wise it’s pretty good. So is your salary. Contracting is more about lifestyle.

You say you have an interview. Why not do that first?

[ShandyDrinker]

So I’ve just been offered an interview for a contract role in Dublin. Rate is €800 a day and the contract is 6 months with probably extensions.

I’m currently a permie, earning roughly £70k and a generous pension match in England (not London)

I’ve done a bit of research but find it quite confusing. Is it worth accepting a role in Ireland? The things that worry me are:

A) Brexit - will this have an impact on my right to work in Ireland?
B) Tax implications - I’ve done a bit of reading and it looks like “Directors Umbrella” is the way to go. Can anybody summarise how this works as a UK citizen? If I live in Ireland in full time while working there, do I pay tax just like any other Irish citizen? Can I work there for 6-12 months, pay my tax, then bring my earnings back to the UK without any noise from HMRC?
C) General cost of living - would €800 a day leave me better or worse off than £70k over here in the west of England? I hear that Dublin is expensive and if I’m not going through a UK ltd, and living in Ireland full time, I obviously won’t be able to claim for expenses. There’s also a currency risk - after finishing the contract I’d move back to the UK and will therefore want to convert my income to pounds.

Would anybody who has been through this thought process care to share their findings?

Although the rate is good, for £70k outside of London and a generous pension I would seriously consider, even with the rate on offer, whether it's worth the risk.

If you still want to plough ahead...

A) We don't know yet.
B) You need to consider double taxation. You could still be liable for UK tax, depending on the tax already paid on earnings in Ireland. It is worth noting that you can use your UK Ltd if your register for a PRSI exemption. It used to be for up to 183 days per year (watch your number of days spent in Ireland) averaged over I think it was a couple of years. For the rate you're likely to be earning go to a specialist to advise you the best route to take although any of the specialists I contacted in Ireland were reassuringly expensive back in 2011.
C) I would say at the current exchange rates you could be better off than on £70k in the UK. €800 is currently approx £700+ per day, a good rate by any measure. Unless you're looking at hedging there will always be exchange rate risk. I was bitten in 2012 by accepting a contract when the exchange rate had been at approx 1.15-1.20 for the second half of 2011 when I was first there for it then to climb to nearly 1.30 when I was there for a second stint in the second half of 2012. I was ready to pull the plug if the exchange tanked much further.

The following looks quite useful and up to date: http://fenero.ie/contracting-ireland...ide-irish-tax/

[LordoftheLance]

Forget the maths.

Do you want to move to Dublin?
Do you want to be a contractor?

Money wise it’s pretty good. So is your salary. Contracting is more about lifestyle.

You say you have an interview. Why not do that first?

My plan looks like this:

Contract for 5-6 years to get a nice amount of money saved up, then buy a nice house in a cheap area, start a family and either get a nice easy permie job or contract from there.

I’m quite frugal and currently save about £25k a year. I think I could double my rate of saving as a contractor. Plus I think the lifestyle suits me more. I’m very entrepreuneurial and am good at moving to a role, adding a lot of value and then moving on. Of course there are big risks, but I’ve saved up 4 or 5 years living expenses. My wife works remotely and can work anywhere she wants (with decent internet speed mind!).

I’m open to work anywhere at the moment (within reason).I think contracting does seem right for me, so the main thing for me to consider is whether the tax/financial/legal implications make Dublin not worth it. I’d potentially be happy to work inside IR35 as I think I’d still be earning nearly double what I earn now.

[stek]

€800 a day is top rate in Ireland, in fact I've only ever seen one as high as that (they generally don't pay that well) - that was for AIB but dropped a lot after the interview.

Tax/PRSI/USC will eat up 45% of gross, but the big killer is the cost of everything, truly eye-watering day in day out, accommodation being the biggest, in Dublin a two bed city centre Dublin 2 address about €2500/3000 a month. Outside cheaper but transportation is a nightmare, driving horrible..

Good thing is Dublin is quite vibrant in the summer months, to be honest now it's flat as fook, I'm bored rigid here.

I've had a year here and I've had enough, it's too expensive, and not enough going on if you're here alone or not a family. It's a bit like UK 1977....

I'd love to retire here but even though I'm 56 I'm nowhere near that stage!

Brexit won't matter, the CTA will see to that, UK/IRL are too intertwined and have been for 1000 years, citizens of either are not considered foreign in the other and are not under immigration control.

What's your skillset?

[LordoftheLance]

Although the rate is good, for £70k outside of London and a generous pension I would seriously consider, even with the rate on offer, whether it's worth the risk.

If you still want to plough ahead...

A) We don't know yet.
B) You need to consider double taxation. You could still be liable for UK tax, depending on the tax already paid on earnings in Ireland. It is worth noting that you can use your UK Ltd if your register for a PRSI exemption. It used to be for up to 183 days per year (watch your number of days spent in Ireland) averaged over I think it was a couple of years. For the rate you're likely to be earning go to a specialist to advise you the best route to take although any of the specialists I contacted in Ireland were reassuringly expensive back in 2011.
C) I would say at the current exchange rates you could be better off than on £70k in the UK. €800 is currently approx £700+ per day, a good rate by any measure. Unless you're looking at hedging there will always be exchange rate risk. I was bitten in 2012 by accepting a contract when the exchange rate had been at approx 1.15-1.20 for the second half of 2011 when I was first there for it then to climb to nearly 1.30 when I was there for a second stint in the second half of 2012. I was ready to pull the plug if the exchange tanked much further.

The following looks quite useful and up to date: Contracting in Ireland with a UK Limited Company - Guide to Irish Tax | Fenero

While I agree I'm currently in a great position, I'd really like to save up a huge sum of money so in 5-6 years time we can start a family and be able to relax a bit when it comes to working. I think contracting will be the easiest way to get to that position, my simple sums tell me I should be able to double the amount I can save each year (Of course there is a huge assumption that I won't spent long periods on the bench).


Thanks, I will take a look at that guide. I will have to look into the costs of hedging the currency risk (I did work in a role that involved setting up hedges so I know a bit more than the average guy!)

[LordoftheLance]

€800 a day is top rate in Ireland, in fact I've only ever seen one as high as that (they generally don't pay that well) - that was for AIB but dropped a lot after the interview.

Tax/PRSI/USC will eat up 45% of gross, but the big killer is the cost of everything, truly eye-watering day in day out, accommodation being the biggest, in Dublin a two bed city centre Dublin 2 address about €2500/3000 a month. Outside cheaper but transportation is a nightmare, driving horrible..

Good thing is Dublin is quite vibrant in the summer months, to be honest now it's flat as fook, I'm bored rigid here.

I've had a year here and I've had enough, it's too expensive, and not enough going on if you're here alone or not a family. It's a bit like UK 1977....

I'd love to retire here but even though I'm 56 I'm nowhere near that stage!

Brexit won't matter, the CTA will see to that, UK/IRL are too intertwined and have been for 1000 years, citizens of either are not considered foreign in the other and are not under immigration control.

What's your skillset?

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

[stek]

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

[LondonPM1]

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

Totally do it - i started contracting at 28 and never looked back

And I am unashamed to say I did it for the money which was twice my perm rate if you are clever about retained funds in limited company rather then the mindset nonsence i see on these boards

I had little time on the bench as well

You d be mad not to do it

[LondonPM1]

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

I dont know ireland but if you were going through a UK Ltd you would be billing 16,000 a month. Corp tax is 20% and rent plus food is 2K a month.

Youd take out 24K a year and leave the rest in the company and not pay any more tax.

When you earn 800 a day an accountant for 1,000 is well worth it