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WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 07:42
I'm a first time contractor; 2 1/2 months' into my first contract.

As a permie I had a fairly good work\life balance - worked a basic 37 hour week and had time to go to the gym after work, spend time with the girlfriend etc.

I am only contracted to a 40 hour week. I work with a lot of contractors and competition to impress more than the next man and to secure that next renewal is high. I've been starting work at 8am (most contractors are already at their desks working when I arrive) and leaving work at about 7pm (most contractors are still at their desks working when I leave). Is this normal?

My limited experience of contracting and other seasoned contractors is that you are worked to within an inch of your life and fellow contractors would sell you down the river and not loose a moments sleep to get their renewal ahead of you.

DimPrawn
3rd August 2007, 07:45
Yes. Next.

SandyDown
3rd August 2007, 07:46
I'm a first time contractor; 2 1/2 months' into my first contract.

As a permie I had a fairly good work\life balance - worked a basic 37 hour week and had time to go to the gym after work, spend time with the girlfriend etc.

I am only contracted to a 40 hour week. I work with a lot of contractors and competition to impress more than the next man and to secure that next renewal is high. I've been starting work at 8am (most contractors are already at their desks working when I arrive) and leaving work at about 7pm (most contractors are still at their desks working when I leave). Is this normal?

My limited experience of contracting and other seasoned contractors is that you are worked to within an inch of your life and fellow contractors would sell you down the river and not loose a moments sleep to get their renewal ahead of you.

depends which organisation your work for - but in general for most large companies/banks this is normal, however as a contractor the idea is you work extra hard on a contract, have a good break when contract finish - stay at home with the family or travel for a month or two. Or you can always get a contract with a small org/government every now and again, less pay but better work/life balance.

WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 07:50
Are you getting paid just for 40 or for all the hours?

No, I'm on a day rate. It's not a bad one though it has to be said.

BlasterBates
3rd August 2007, 07:51
Yes but you need to divide by the hours.

Just out of interest what is your daily rate?

DimPrawn
3rd August 2007, 07:53
The feckers are probably just posting crap all day on CUK and pretending to be working.

Do the std 40 hours and then work on a plan b at your desk for the rest of the time.

al_cam
3rd August 2007, 07:54
Sounds like you are working in IB.

The question is, are you getting a good rate that makes it worthwhile?.

I could get £500/day, but choose to get less for an easier life.

Decide whether you want the money or the life and then take it from there.

In your shoes, I would stick it out for the experience and then start working your 40 hour week. If they bin you then get another contract, if they keep you then great - you will be the envy of the others.

BlasterBates
3rd August 2007, 07:56
Is that true.

I have a crap rate, but I struggle to do 40 hours. I was wondering about going into an IB in London but my suspicion is that I might be expected to work hard. Would this be a correct assumption ?

Cowboy Bob
3rd August 2007, 07:59
This is exactly why I steer well clear of city type jobs. I prefer to earn a bit less per day and at the same time have a life.

Pickle2
3rd August 2007, 08:02
Where are you working?

Regular 11 hour days is nuts, unless you are getting paid daft amounts for it. Have a look at some of the lower tier IBs. Its a standard 9 till 5-30 where I am for everyone, and the rate is still decent (500-600 / day). And we still get to post sh1te here all day.

At the end of the day, you are your own boss. If you dont like it - walk. Why are people killing themselves to get a renewal anyway? The market is pretty strong - my experince is that the line managers just want an easy life and would rather renew someone good who they know who works 45 hour weeks than go back to market and take their chances on a random to get an extra 10 hours "seat time".

AlfredJPruffock
3rd August 2007, 08:05
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.

Benjamin Franklin
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 08:06
It's just a bit of a shock to the system.

And where's all the love? LOL.

As a permie my workmates were my friends.

Now, permies hate you because you earn more and other contractors hate you because you are competition.

I think because most contractors here are living away from home then they only have a hotel room to go back to so I guess they may as well stay at work a bit longer. I live local so I have a nice house to go home to.

So general advise seems to be you are being paid well so get on with it and stop moaning. Or, if you want a life you need to take a lower rate. Seems reasonable I guess.

BlasterBates
3rd August 2007, 08:07
Where are you working?

Regular 11 hour days is nuts, unless you are getting paid daft amounts for it. Have a look at some of the lower tier IBs. Its a standard 9 till 5-30 where I am for everyone, and the rate is still decent (500-600 / day). And we still get to post sh1te here all day.

At the end of the day, you are your own boss. If you dont like it - walk. Why are people killing themselves to get a renewal anyway? The market is pretty strong - my experince is that the line managers just want an easy life and would rather renew someone good who they know who works 45 hour weeks than go back to market and take their chances on a random to get an extra 10 hours "seat time".

That sounds more like it.

Steer clear of American banks like Goldman Sachs or Lehman Brothers.

I get the impression high street banks like Barclays or RBS would be better.

Pickle2
3rd August 2007, 08:29
As a permie my workmates were my friends.

Now, permies hate you because you earn more and other contractors hate you because you are competition.


Where the feck are you working? Is it Barcap by any chance? It sounds like it, its well known as a hellish place.. Just look for another contract and walk as soon as you line something up, this certainly isnt "the norm".

richard-af
3rd August 2007, 08:36
Where are you working?

Regular 11 hour days is nuts, unless you are getting paid daft amounts for it. Have a look at some of the lower tier IBs. Its a standard 9 till 5-30 where I am for everyone, and the rate is still decent (500-600 / day). And we still get to post sh1te here all day.

At the end of the day, you are your own boss. If you dont like it - walk. Why are people killing themselves to get a renewal anyway? The market is pretty strong - my experince is that the line managers just want an easy life and would rather renew someone good who they know who works 45 hour weeks than go back to market and take their chances on a random to get an extra 10 hours "seat time".

Never mind where he's working, where are YOU working, and do they need a talented Oracle DBA (that's me!) with Tuning, RAC and other High Availability skills?

BlasterBates
3rd August 2007, 08:40
Where are you working?

Regular 11 hour days is nuts, unless you are getting paid daft amounts for it. Have a look at some of the lower tier IBs. Its a standard 9 till 5-30 where I am for everyone, and the rate is still decent (500-600 / day). And we still get to post sh1te here all day.

At the end of the day, you are your own boss. If you dont like it - walk. Why are people killing themselves to get a renewal anyway? The market is pretty strong - my experince is that the line managers just want an easy life and would rather renew someone good who they know who works 45 hour weeks than go back to market and take their chances on a random to get an extra 10 hours "seat time".

Spill the beans, where is "Utopia"

lilelvis2000
3rd August 2007, 08:44
Gosh. I get in late, leave early, take long lunch hours, set my own schedule of work, and work only as hard as I need to.

but then - I have to deal with people who, simply put, don't deserve to have a job.

dotnetter
3rd August 2007, 08:46
Leave it out!

I do my 8 or 7.5 hours and I'm off! if there is a very good reason for me to stay longer (PAID!) then I might, but since I started contracting my work life balance has been much better!

I don't feel so pressured, I know I always deliver and have never had any problems getting renewals, fuk other contractors they can do what they want.

I do what hours I want and take days off when I want, I make sure my work is done and I'm on shedule and thats that.

Pickle2
3rd August 2007, 08:55
Spill the beans, where is "Utopia"

European bank, non front office role. Its not really any different from working at BT to be honest. Although I guess we dont spend all of friday afternoon in the boozer as we did during my stint with buzby. Ah, happy days...

WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 09:05
I'm working for a Telco in the North of England. Don't want to say more than that in case someone figures out who I am. They will know it's me because I'm the lazy one who only works a 60 hour week.

I need some contracting experience under my belt so I'll stick it out. I don't really need the IT experience as I have over 10 years in IT.

I think the market in the North of England is quite poor. I was involved in the recruitment of contractors in my last perm job and for every position we received a sack full of applicants all of whom could "start immediately".

I was hoping I could stay in work just taking contracts that are commutable from home but I'm increasing thinking this is unlikely.

Bagpuss
3rd August 2007, 09:05
I'm contracted to do 36.5, when I've done that I'm off

The permies here probably do 45 and they are contracted to do the same hours. It's all about culture. There are no fixed core hours here, it's up to the individual based on commitments, but everyone still acts with a 9-5:30 mentality.

Fools I tell ye! ;)

Chugnut
3rd August 2007, 09:07
European bank, non front office role. Its not really any different from working at BT to be honest.

I'd agree with this. I've worked for a few IB's now and you can't tar them all with the same brush.

Whether you have to work long days or get to leave bang on 8 hours entirely depends upon what role you're doing and how busy it is.

gables
3rd August 2007, 09:17
.... I've been starting work at 8am (most contractors are already at their desks working when I arrive) and leaving work at about 7pm (most contractors are still at their desks working when I leave). Is this normal?



Are they getting paid by the hour by any chance?

WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 09:25
Are they getting paid by the hour by any chance?

Nope - all on day rates. The project is coming to an end and will be down sizing. I'm guessing about 1/2 of the contractors will be cut. Everyone is trying to make sure it is not them who gets cut I think. I'll be cut for sure as I was last through the door. That's contracting I suppose. Got to look for work every 3-6 months - and Gordon Brown wants to tell me that I am the same as any other employee (IR35). WTF!

wendigo100
3rd August 2007, 09:28
Got to look for work every 3-6 monthsDon't worry, you'll get used to that after about 10 years. :eek

Chugnut
3rd August 2007, 09:33
If you know you're out the door, that the feck are you working those hours for?

No payee, no workee was always my attitude.

If you want my time, you fecking pay for it...


Do you invoice CUK for your posting time? You must be minted, Zeity. :laugh

DodgyAgent
3rd August 2007, 09:40
I'm working for a Telco in the North of England. Don't want to say more than that in case someone figures out who I am. They will know it's me because I'm the lazy one who only works a 60 hour week.

I need some contracting experience under my belt so I'll stick it out. I don't really need the IT experience as I have over 10 years in IT.

I think the market in the North of England is quite poor. I was involved in the recruitment of contractors in my last perm job and for every position we received a sack full of applicants all of whom could "start immediately".

I was hoping I could stay in work just taking contracts that are commutable from home but I'm increasing thinking this is unlikely.

BT Newcastle? :happy contractors supplied by Spring and others?

Francko
3rd August 2007, 09:42
Is that true.

I have a crap rate, but I struggle to do 40 hours. I was wondering about going into an IB in London but my suspicion is that I might be expected to work hard. Would this be a correct assumption ?

Are you saying that they don't do long hours in Switzerland? In my impression, they indeed do so and they are even proud that they are wasting most of their life in the office. To me it's madness. But then again I think it doesn't depend on the country or sector. Some companies just want you to reject all of your personal life in favour of work.

Nonetheless, I have never seen anybody being fired-not renewed because he didn't put enough hours. The more hours you work the more ineffective you are and you might end up working more and doing less even on an absolute scale. Having said that, once you start having a bad reputation you might even work 24 hours but you are doomed to fail anyway.

For some jobs there might be an increased output if you stay longer though (example: support, whereby people need you at specific times and the longer you stay the more the chances you can be useful)....

BlasterBates
3rd August 2007, 10:02
yup :smile

I'll be disappearing soon for the weekend.

Colemanisor
3rd August 2007, 10:05
If you know you're out the door, that the feck are you working those hours for?

No payee, no workee was always my attitude.

If you want my time, you fecking pay for it...

Amen to that brother

Devlin
3rd August 2007, 10:11
Unpaid overtime is for permies!!

DS23
3rd August 2007, 10:48
I'm a first time contractor; 2 1/2 months' into my first contract.....

swings and roundabouts.

you're a contractor and will move from job to job. sometimes the work will be as you describe and sometimes it won't. depends on so many different factors, like what who you are, what you do, the culture of the client, whether a systems integrator is managing the project etc.

when you are living out of a suitcase working normal hours can just mean more time in the hotel bar. sounds fine but you end up drinking profits and putting on weight. working the hours off can makes sense. quite a few of us work long hours to gain a day (i work 5 days in 4) - maybe some of contractors around you are doing this?

"fitting in" is vital as a contractor (unless you are very niche/exclusive and can paint your own picture) and is absolutely crucial on your first and second jobs. whatever the culture you need to convert to it. sometimes it will be tough and sometimes a doddle. stick it out - the next one might be peachy.

it is probably not just the hours it is the uncertainty about job security, payments, colleague relationships and just being a contractor. it feels different doesn't it? you will get used to it and when you feel more comfortable in your contracting skin you will find you have the strength to not let them walk all over you. when you start thinking about your work in terms of your business (i assume you are ltd) then it will change.

i have rarely found fellow contractors scheming and stabbing in order to get renewals. we might jockey for a particular piece of work or squeeze information out of each other - that's as fas as it goes. it seems to me you are still thinking permie - the job will end sooner or later and then you get another one.

WetBehindTheEars
3rd August 2007, 11:54
Sound advice DS23.

<qoute>It is probably not just the hours it is the uncertainty about job security, payments, colleague relationships and just being a contractor.</quote>

Yeah, spot on. I think I'm still having doubts about whether I did the right thing going contract. I talked myself out of it lots of times before I actually went for it.

Job security is my biggest fear. Finding that next contract on the right rate and in the right location. Was talking to one of the other contractors here and he said that some of the Senior Management can be ruthless if you get on the wrong side of them or screw something up. They sound a bit like Alan Sugar wanabees - your fired! Apparently on-the-spot sackings have happened, although I have not witnessed any to be fair, it might just be gossip.

I'm also a bit worried about this IR35 crap. I've formed my own Ltd company and put myself outside IR35 but I don't understand it all to be honest. I figured no employment rights, no sick pay, no pension, no holiday pay, looking for work every 3\6 months - doesn't sound like a regular employee to me.

Last question - for now - how close to the end of a contract is the right time to start looking for the next gig? Does 1 month sound about right?

Churchill
3rd August 2007, 12:00
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.

Benjamin Franklin
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer and Freemason(1706 - 1790)

Mustang
3rd August 2007, 12:08
Last question - for now - how close to the end of a contract is the right time to start looking for the next gig? Does 1 month sound about right?

Always difficult to tell. I typically start around a month before the end but, as I am a PM, getting the time to look whilst still on contract is hard. Jobs go so quickly that its no good doing the search in the evenings either (even without family committments)!! :(

I agree it is tough making the transition from permie to contractor. Stick with it and reap the rewards and flexibility. I have been doing it for 3 years now and I still get nervous when looking for new work but I am confident it will get easier - or my attititude to it all will be more relaxed.

There a whole string of benefits to balance the downside. I can't list them all but one of them is the flexibility. I ended a contract in May and it wasn't extended. My wife and I decided to go off on holiday and spent nearly 5 weeks travelling round the US and Canada!! :happy Try getting a permie line manager to let you do that!! :D

Stick with it!! :yay:

Pickle2
3rd August 2007, 12:20
but, as I am a PM, getting the time to look whilst still on contract is hard.

Something about that statement deffinatley doesnt add up! :wink

Dark Black
3rd August 2007, 13:06
Unpaid overtime is for permies!!

Ditto that dude! :yay: :banana: :music:

maverick
3rd August 2007, 13:45
I'm working for a Telco in the North of England. Don't want to say more than that in case someone figures out who I am. They will know it's me because I'm the lazy one who only works a 60 hour week.

I need some contracting experience under my belt so I'll stick it out. I don't really need the IT experience as I have over 10 years in IT.

I think the market in the North of England is quite poor. I was involved in the recruitment of contractors in my last perm job and for every position we received a sack full of applicants all of whom could "start immediately".

I was hoping I could stay in work just taking contracts that are commutable from home but I'm increasing thinking this is unlikely.

I work in the North West. Plenty of jobs in Midlands/Leeds but none are really commutable (M6/M62 can be nightmares to use). My current client has just cut the contractors by 50% on the project I am on. The people staying didn't put in anymore hours than me. Sometimes they definitely put in less then the required 40 hours per week. I have been consistently busy while they sat around with not much to do but it was me that was let go.

At the end of the day how a PM decides who to keep and who to bin is just random (or I upset someone). If I am on the bench to long then the missus will have to just lump the fact that I shall have to work away from home during the week. It certainly would make my life less stressful knowing that I would have more choice and less downtime. Saying all that though I have not had a break for the last 14 months and am looking for to some R&R. :freaky:

DS23
6th August 2007, 12:53
Sound advice DS23....Yeah, spot on.

eh? something wrong here... this has never happened before! must have had a rare moment of lucidity. normal service will be resumed soon enough no doubt.

darmstadt
6th August 2007, 13:34
I don't really need the IT experience as I have over 10 years in IT.

Silly thing to say. I have over 25 years in IT and I still learn something new each day.

My main contract is for 1000 hours from now to the end of the year and to work when I want.

Portent
6th August 2007, 13:46
Hi there. My first post here. I'm in the same position as the original poster... doing silly numbers of hours and with no work/life balance at all. None of the extra hours are paid either.

I'm currently a permie with 20 years experienc. So my solution...

Contracting is looking very attractive to me right now. I'm happy to do the extra hours and at least I'd get paid for doing them!

Francko
6th August 2007, 14:09
Hi there. My first post here. I'm in the same position as the original poster... doing silly numbers of hours and with no work/life balance at all. None of the extra hours are paid either.

I'm currently a permie with 20 years experienc. So my solution...

Contracting is looking very attractive to me right now. I'm happy to do the extra hours and at least I'd get paid for doing them!

Well, let's put it this way. If you are willing to give free hours as a permie, I strongly doubt that you'd be able to get paid as a contractor for that. It's a common misperception that just because you are contracting then all companies will automatically pay you overtime. It's up to the individual to have them paid or taken back, either as a permie or as a contractor. But as I said, if you don't have the guts to get what you should be entitled to as a cheap permie, it will be even harder to get it as a more expensive contractor.

cojak
6th August 2007, 15:19
Are you saying that they don't do long hours in Switzerland? In my impression, they indeed do so and they are even proud that they are wasting most of their life in the office. To me it's madness. But then again I think it doesn't depend on the country

That's Zurich, try asking anyone in Vevey that and they'd laugh in your face...

Francko
6th August 2007, 15:31
That's Zurich, try asking anyone in Vevey that and they'd laugh in your face...

Yeah but I guess you get the same also if you ask someone in London or someone in Somerset or Devonshire. :glasses

castoff101
6th August 2007, 19:41
My contract quotes a rate per professional day or 7.5 hours, but I seem to be working about 8-8.5 hours most days. I try to get the job in hand at a reasonable point before I abandon it for the evening.

The permies also seem to put in longer hours than actually paid.

Somebody on here once said be the first in and the last to leave - right, good way of getting zero life outside the office!

Any offers on what a professional day means? :confused:

Portent
6th August 2007, 20:42
Well, let's put it this way. If you are willing to give free hours as a permie, I strongly doubt that you'd be able to get paid as a contractor for that. It's a common misperception that just because you are contracting then all companies will automatically pay you overtime. It's up to the individual to have them paid or taken back, either as a permie or as a contractor. But as I said, if you don't have the guts to get what you should be entitled to as a cheap permie, it will be even harder to get it as a more expensive contractor.

A fair point there. I work with many contractors (including some working for me so I get to sign there timesheets and thereby have a degree of visibility to their rates and hours). Generally most of them work to a professional day and I know this usually exceeds the number of hours I personally would be paid for. So I'm under no illusions there.

Would I have the guts to get what I'm entitled to? Hopefully but I suppose I won't know until I try it (still only considering if it's for me). The problem I have given myself is that I already try to work a professional day (even though I know I'm only paid a set number of hours). But as my workload and responsibility has increased I've taken on that extra burden. Yep, I know it's an issue of my own making ultimately. I'm at a crossroads now where it's time to do something about it. That may be contracting, or it may be pushing back the hours while staying as a permie.

A concern I have is the amount of offshoring and onshoring I'm seeing all around me. That will be reducing contract roles and of course suppressing salaries. Or is that an incorrect assumption? Perhaps I'll start a seperate thread about that one.

Gonzo
6th August 2007, 20:52
Any offers on what a professional day means? :confused:There's no straight-forward answer on this, and it has been covered before on here.

My current contract does not state what this is. There is "an expectation" that I will do a 40 hour week, although I usually do 8.5 or 9 hours a day. There are times in the project lifecycle where a day will be a lot more than that so I have no qualms about putting in a shorter day from time to time if I feel like it.

My general rule of thumb is that <6 hours is a half day. >=6 hours is a day. Although I would expect the PM to have words with me if every day was 6 hours and that other people have other ideas on this.

Francko
6th August 2007, 21:33
Any offers on what a professional day means? :confused:

In my opinion it should mean that, although you work an average of 35/40 hours a day, you can alternate longer hours when most needed and take off hours when the workload is less. Now as most offices have some sort of budget problems and therefore the workload is well over an average of 35/40 hours a week, they want to convince you that it is professional to deprive you of some of your personal time. For this reason and because nobody will notice when you do 2-3 hours overtime but everybody will realise when you leave 2-3 hours early, I decided that it must take exceptional circumstances to do a "professional day" (i.e. working longer than expected) and never on a voluntary base.

castoff101
6th August 2007, 21:48
But it so hard to work out without anybody noticing! None of colleagues, permies and contract seem to want to go home at a reasonable time. Some sort of competition to see who is the last one out of the door?

Gonzo
6th August 2007, 21:58
But it so hard to work out without anybody noticing! None of colleagues, permies and contract seem to want to go home at a reasonable time. Some sort of competition to see who is the last one out of the door?This is common if you are working in banking in London. I have never understood it myself, when I was permie I never worked late.

I have seen a couple of approaches to this, one bloke I worked with always stayed late but never started before 9:30 on the basis that everyone notices if you work late but noone ever notices if you are in late.

Another hung his coat in a cupboard near the exit. He would be talking to the people he sat with and intimate that he was going to talk to someone in another part of the office. That way noone was ever sure about what time he actually left.

brownie74
7th August 2007, 03:15
Another hung his coat in a cupboard near the exit. He would be talking to the people he sat with and intimate that he was going to talk to someone in another part of the office. That way noone was ever sure about what time he actually left.

Love it! :laugh

One thing you permies could consider is my belief that there is nothing to gain from a programming career in IT, apart from money. Once you come to that view the way forward is clear. I'm earning top dollar for a 7.5 hour day. I make sure I engineer a high visibility success now and again - then I give myself some downtime during which I skill up, on the job. All work done is towards increasing my rate and for no other reason.

barely_pointless
7th August 2007, 03:51
Love it! :laugh

- then I give myself some downtime during which I skill up, on the job. All work done is towards increasing my rate and for no other reason.

absolutely!

Cowboy Bob
7th August 2007, 05:21
Any offers on what a professional day means? :confused:

No more than 8 hours IMO.

Euro-commuter
7th August 2007, 07:13
Any offers on what a professional day means? :confused:The answer is not a specific number of hours, or even a principle, or indeed a matter of what it should mean.

What it means to the agency, who put the phrase in the contract in the first place, is that you should work whatever hours the client later deems to have been satisfactory.

rootsnall
7th August 2007, 08:05
This is common if you are working in banking in London. I have never understood it myself, when I was permie I never worked late.

I have seen a couple of approaches to this, one bloke I worked with always stayed late but never started before 9:30 on the basis that everyone notices if you work late but noone ever notices if you are in late.

Another hung his coat in a cupboard near the exit. He would be talking to the people he sat with and intimate that he was going to talk to someone in another part of the office. That way noone was ever sure about what time he actually left.

I've used both of these tactics. Learning how to make it look like you are just going to look for someone but actually leaving takes a bit of skill and practice. The late start bit is now a non starter as I've got young kids who get you up at the crack of dawn so it's early starts for me. On my current contract I have just insisted on a definition of the working day as 7.5 hours, I'll do more when needed but will take back the time when it suits. If the clients don't like it then they don't renew, simple as that.

tay
7th August 2007, 08:26
But it so hard to work out without anybody noticing! None of colleagues, permies and contract seem to want to go home at a reasonable time. Some sort of competition to see who is the last one out of the door?

Who cares??? Its all about the relationships you build with the people that matter. 1 hour spent in the pub with the PM or manager is worth 100 working late.

And if you cant go to the pub, then just be friendly and happy at work.

But the most important thing is to start how you mean to go on. I always start at 8, always have 1 hour for lunch and depending on contract I finish at 4 or 4.30 everyday... once in a blue moon I will stay late if we are doing a release... and they really appreciate it.

I work in fininace in London for major Blue Chips and have had lots and lots of extensions, and never once had an issue with finishing on time. All comes down to how much guts you have, some people are doormats and some people are feet.


What it means to the agency, who put the phrase in the contract in the first place, is that you should work whatever hours the client later deems to have been satisfactory.

That way lies madness and no life....

r0bly0ns
7th August 2007, 08:37
once in a blue moon I will stay late if we are doing a release... and they really appreciate it.




I totally agree, I learnt a very valuable lesson early in my career.......


If you constantly work overtime, it becomes the norm and expected, and questions will be asked if you stop doing it.

If you never work overtime, but then you do once to help them out when it hits the fan, it is really appreciated!

Sounds daft, but I have seen it happen, I worked in a team where one guy had no social life and used to work 9 hours a day minimum. We used to just stick to the 7.5.

He managed to get himself a girlfriend and cut back to 8 hours a day.
At his next review he got a verbal warning because if it, they actually mentioned in his review that they didn't like the fact that he had cut his hours!
Wereas me and a couple of others *only* put in extra hours when it hit the fan, and we got bonuses because of our 'comittment'!


Go figure...

EternalOptimist
7th August 2007, 08:47
Wet behind the lugs

A daily rate of 350 works out at about 42 quid an hour. If you do an 11 hour day its 32 quid. I wouldnt get out of bed for 32 quid an hour.

When you have been doing four contracts a year for 3 or 4 years you will learn that making friends on a contract is something that doesnt happen often, so dont sweat it.

The only thing that matters is hitting your targets, leave the 'bum on seat' mentality to the permies (and the pm's). If you have to work 11 hours a day to hit your deadline, do it, if you can meet your deadline by working 6 hours a day, then ***** off at four. If you work in an area where there are no real targets, do your eight hours then leave.

You are allowing yourself to be pressured, this is bad, sounds like a hangover from your permiedom days. You will grow out of it. You will develop a healthy '***** you' attitude.






:rolleyes:

barely_pointless
7th August 2007, 09:06
I used to work at an IB in London and did 0900 to 1730 or 0830 to 1645-ish with 30 mins odd for lunch until world cup time where we spent all the time in the pub.

Start as you mean to go on, don't give the expectation that you are a 12 hour a day bangalore body if 6 weeks later you drop back to a normal contractual obligation, the client will perceive that he is getting less.

and that's the rub, it's about perception!!

ChimpMaster
7th August 2007, 09:12
[QUOTE=barely_pointless]I used to work at an IB in London and did 0900 to 1730 or 0830 to 1645-ish ........QUOTE]

Yep that's my score too. I do my 8 hours every day and that's it. Rarely I have to do more if the situation requires, but on the other hand I sometimes get to leave that little bit earlier.

I set the expectations as soon as I started - I asked to start a little earlier so that I could finish before 5pm, and that's what I've done ever since. I can understand the fear about competing for contract work with others in the same team, but hey if they're going to cut contractors there's not a lot you can do about it anyway.

Just do your contracted hours and be professional. Get the work done and get it done well - that's what you're hired for.

richard-af
7th August 2007, 09:13
You will grow out of it. You will develop a healthy '***** you' attitude.

Spoken like a gentleman, sir! :D

brownie74
7th August 2007, 09:19
I've used both of these tactics. Learning how to make it look like you are just going to look for someone but actually leaving takes a bit of skill and practice. The late start bit is now a non starter as I've got young kids who get you up at the crack of dawn so it's early starts for me. On my current contract I have just insisted on a definition of the working day as 7.5 hours, I'll do more when needed but will take back the time when it suits. If the clients don't like it then they don't renew, simple as that.

are you serious? i always turn round and say goodnight to the team. and i say good morning when i arrive. being the last in and first out, i always get a smile :happy

brownie74
7th August 2007, 09:21
Wet behind the lugs

When you have been doing four contracts a year for 3 or 4 years you will learn that making friends on a contract is something that doesnt happen often, so dont sweat it.

:rolleyes:

i'm surprised you can get a job. i have seen a CV go straight in the bin with 12 contracts over a three year period. it shows zero renewals.

Euro-commuter
7th August 2007, 09:23
i'm surprised you can get a job. i have seen a CV go straight in the bin with 12 contracts over a three year period. it shows zero renewals.All that shows is that there are managers around with permie-hiring mindsets. But you don't want to work there.

brownie74
7th August 2007, 09:29
All that shows is that there are managers around with permie-hiring mindsets. But you don't want to work there.

i'd love to think it didnt matter...4 gigs a year would be great fun. you cant get much done in 12 weeks tho, can you. only something noddy. you'd be applying for low end jobs, so you might get away with it

richard-af
7th August 2007, 09:34
are you serious? i always turn round and say goodnight to the team. and i say good morning when i arrive. being the last in and first out, i always get a smile :happy

You're confusing work with the pub.

EternalOptimist
7th August 2007, 09:45
i'm surprised you can get a job. i have seen a CV go straight in the bin with 12 contracts over a three year period. it shows zero renewals.

I was trying to make a point to wet-lugs. Dont worry about that particular problem because you are going to be constantly on the move









:rolleyes: