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Another Umbrella vs Limited thread..!

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    Another Umbrella vs Limited thread..!

    Hello all,

    New here, and new to contracting in general. I do apologise for asking a question that has already been asked ad infinitum - I've read a lot of threads and guides, both here and elsewhere, but would love for someone's experienced opinion to help clear things up.

    I've been offered a new job, initially as a 12 month contract through Torry Harris. I received advice from another contractor at the company employing me, and he gave a good explanation of umbrella company vs. limited company, and hinted that most of their new contractors in a similar position initially go with an umbrella company and perhaps change to a Limited company after a year or two (that was what the contractor in question had done).

    This does seem appealing to me, as my knowledge of running a company is based on what I've read online tonight! However, the idea of making as much money from the job as possible does appeal to me and there's a couple of other factors that maybe should influence my decision.

    Firstly, I spoke to someone at Parasol (who the contractor mentioned as a popular choice, and the general forum "vibe" seems to be they are trustworthy), who was very helpful. I gave him information about my contract (£35,000 p/a, travel expenses around £3/day on the train..) and he emailed me over a quote, stating that "You could take home at least £2,066 each month using our service. This is at least 71% of your gross income." (based on a daily rate of £142.85) - with a £80/month admin fee included. This seems pretty reasonable to me, being used to full time employment, but I'm curious how much more I could *actually* make with the Ltd option, given that it has been hinted that as long as I perform, the contract will be renewed (although he did mention that it may become a permanent role, in which case all this is kind of irrelevant!)

    One thing that is confusing my decision is that I have been doing some freelance web dev. work (pretty low value at the minute, but I reckon I could make around £500/month extra on average if I carry on). I've read up a bit on IR35, and it seems to me that my role will be almost a full time role but with contractor status almost as a "technicality", so it would probably mean I was caught by IR35. However, would freelance work for a few clients make me more able to dodge this?

    So basically, would I be significantly better off going Limited such that it offsets the extra work involved? My current plan is to go with the umbrella company, and after a year or so, reassess my situation when I understand things a bit better - does this seem sound?

    In which case, would changing the contract during the 12 month period from umbrella to limited likely present any kind of problems?

    As you can tell I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all, and the path of least resistance appealed unless there are big savings to be made by going Limited. Any advice is much appreciated, and apologies for the length of this essay!

    Cheers

    #2
    Read the sticky thread at the top of this forum about Ltd vs Umbrella (ignore MSCs, they are no more). And if you think a "year or so" is a valid timesacale for a contractor, you're in the wrong place: divide by 12 and try again...

    HTH
    Blog? What blog...?

    Comment


      #3
      Hi there.

      Until next year when the taxation system may be changed again (see Income Shifting) the major advantage of having a Ltd versus Umbrella is as follows:

      Both you and you significant other could have shares in the company.
      The company pays dividends equally to both parties (and a small salary to yourself)
      Both parties taxed at basic rate on say £35,000 of dividends = £70,000 at basic rate

      So,
      1) higher rate tax is avoided (on say £35,000), and
      2) employee and employers NI is also avoided.

      These only apply if the contract is outside IR35

      Now in your position, your company income of £35,000 is already below the higher rate tax threshold so 1 above does not apply. So you are left with the NI saving.

      If you can ensure the contract is out of IR35 and assuming you pay a basic salary of £5,220 and a dividend of £28,000 (leaving some cash for accountancy fees etc) then you will net:

      £5,220 + (£28,000 * 79%(corporation tax is 21%)) = £27,340 (a return of 78%). There is also scope to profit from the Fixed Rate VAT scheme (probably about £900 gross in year 1 reducing to £550 in subsequent years).

      If within IR35 the 95% of the company income minus expenses is taxed as salary, so as your accountancy fees (say £1,000 pa) are quite a large proportion of your income I would suggest an umbrella would probably be more appropriate than a Ltd.

      I am not an accountant, and this advice is worth what you paid for it. But I hope it makes sense. Feel free to ask further questions.
      Last edited by Archangel; 17 April 2008, 07:05. Reason: repeated correcting of spelling!

      Comment


        #4
        I should add that you can get accountants whose monthly fee is the same or less than the umbrella company you looked at.

        I suggest you search for accountants on this forum. Go to their websites and see what services they offer for their monthly fee, and then give them a ring.
        "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

        Comment


          #5
          I see what you're saying newcontractor08, working through your own ltd co is a bit more of a pain, especially to begin with. However, I'm guessing on a daily rate like yours of around £140 you'd be taking home approx 80% plus in a combo of salary and dividends.

          Check out some of the take home calculators on the net.

          For me the extra money comes in handy.

          With regards to IR35 get your contract checked out (the PCG have a good check list on their site). Don't assume just because you think like a permie you are actually a permie. What company benefits will your client be providing: holiday pay, sick pay, final salary pension, fully expensed car/mobile phone, laptop etc? I but nothing!

          Take home and claim everything you are entitled to, why leave money on the table or even worse pay the revenue more than is absolutely necessary.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by newcontractor08 View Post
            he emailed me over a quote, stating that "You could take home at least £2,066 each month using our service. This is at least 71% of your gross income.
            Cheers
            hmph. note the word could. i could go home today to find my wife and Sarah Beeny having a naked pillow fight on the bed, but it's unlikely. i've NEVER got better than 70% with Parasol, and that's only when i've claimed plenty of travel + lunch + software expenses. typically i'm getting about 58 - 60%, which is one of the reasons i'm switching to my own Ltd. TBH i wish i'd done this in the first place, but switching from perm to contracting was scary so i went with the "safe" option to start with.

            IR35 or not, what it boils down to for me is you can either pay money to Parasol, who in turn will pay accountants to arrange things in Parasol's best interest, or you can spend that money paying your own accountant to act in your best interest.
            Originally posted by BolshieBastard
            You're fulfilling a business role not partaking in a rock and roll concert.

            Comment


              #7
              Which is the most cogent summary of why you go Ltd that I've seen for a while.
              Blog? What blog...?

              Comment


                #8
                Umbrella = Convenience (normally)
                Own Ltd = More money (normally)

                If you can handle a bit of inconvenience, I'd go for your own ltd every time. Yes, there's mroe work involved but at least you can arrange your affairs to favour yourself rather than an anonymous umbrella who are just another company to grab a margin from your income.

                Comment


                  #9
                  yup with your expenses youll be lucky to hit 60% mate. 71% is pie in the sky.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What is it with contractors today? What's scary about ltd. When I started contracting there wasn't the www fund of information (all we had was Freelance Informer), and umbrella companies were not widely used - it was ltd. or agency employee.

                    Perhaps if all brollies were shut down, and ltd. was the only way, there'd be less competition!
                    Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

                    Comment

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