Job specs asking for specific database experience

**TheBigYinJames** · 18 June 2008, 15:29

Originally posted by Gros View Post

What's the big secret? Am I really not qualified to take on a development role where the database is Oracle, or should I be persuading the agent that it's not an issue?

PL-SQL and T-SQL are both a little bit like Perl, in that you can use it pretty well at a low skill level. You can start it up and write decent basic queries, joins etc and you'll get it to work pretty well, you'll probably be able to write all the store procs you'll need for basic webpages, data retrieval etc.

But what the gurus do with it is way way advanced, and requires a deeper knowledge of the underlying structures. Also a fair amount of mathematical nous, set theory, stats, etc.

So you could probably get away with having it on your CV as an ancillary skill, in case yuo need to write/debug a few sprocs, but I wouldn't try to claim it as a core skill.

**Spacecadet** · 18 June 2008, 15:37

Originally posted by Gros View Post

As far as I can see, once you've seen one data query tool, you've seen them all.

The fact you're making that comment explicitly implies that you don't have enough experience for DB specific work

**Gros** · 18 June 2008, 17:22

Originally posted by Spacecadet View Post

The fact you're making that comment explicitly implies that you don't have enough experience for DB specific work

Very true, but as I explained above, these aren't the roles I'm going for. I'm a J2EE developer. To me it shouldn't matter what's at the back end, as long as I have access to it.

**TheBigYinJames** · 18 June 2008, 17:24

Originally posted by Gros View Post

Very true, but as I explained above, these aren't the roles I'm going for. I'm a J2EE developer. To me it shouldn't matter what's at the back end, as long as I have access to it.

But it never hurts to have experience and knowledge of some of the back-end tiers. Every little bit helps your rate.

**RichardCranium** · 18 June 2008, 17:28

Originally posted by Gros View Post

Very true, but as I explained above, these aren't the roles I'm going for. I'm a J2EE developer. To me it shouldn't matter what's at the back end, as long as I have access to it.

Knowing how to write SQL is not the same as knowing how to write SQL that will perform well on an Oracle system.

The debates about query techniques and structures between experienced Oracle programmers can be incredibly complex and requires understanding of the Oracle-specific language features. Then the DBA will wade in and argue the toss from their point of view. Then the database designer will wade in reminding them of the hard-coded optimisations they need to be aware of.

SQL is an abortion. Oracle is the means to genetic manipulation. The two combined is a ittle bit of hell on earth. The salesmen were wrong, or lied.

Conceiving complex yet viable and efficient Oracle queries is non-trivial.

Giving any other answer in an interview will result in you not getting the gig.

**lilelvis2000** · 18 June 2008, 22:19

You've got basic SQL knowledge and that's all. You haven't worked extensively for two years with PL/SQL writing packages, procedures, triggers functions, types, blocks of SQL 30 lines long, discovering bugs in the database - like I have. You don't know PL/SQL. I would not put it on your CV or mention that you've done any significant work in it.

However, if you are a SQL guru it won't take you long to get the hang of any other vendor's SQL language at the intermediate level. All you need is the reference manual. That's what I would say.

**NickFitz** · 19 June 2008, 03:30

Just my tuppence...

I can do all the DB/SQL stuff that's necessary for general purpose web app development, whatever the actual DB (out of MySQL, SQL Server and Oracle) might be. I also understand enough of the underlying implementation details to know it's important to have DB-specific knowledge if one is expected to do anything over and above the basics, and I therefore know that I don't know enough.

One of my oldest friends is a DB specialist who gets silly money in the City for her expertise. When I worked at Y! the Oracle specialists were held in high regard by even the best engineers.

None of the people I mention would claim to have much knowledge of front-end web development (in W3C standards terms), nor do they claim to know much of server-side web development, other than what they need to know in order to be able to communicate effectively within the team.

If a role demands that you be an expert not only in your own field, but also in an entirely separate field (such as Oracle) to the extent that a general understanding is insufficient, then I would say Run Fast, Run Far - it sounds like the people organising the staffing of the project don't know what they're up to. Serious DB stuff requires serious DB people, and it should not be expected that somebody with the relevant DB experience should also be a competent web app developer - and vice versa.

**Jaws** · 19 June 2008, 07:03

I've noticed quite a few web dev jobs ask for sql server on the list of required skills, so therefore it's listed on the front of my cv (mainly to get the agency call).

Generally in the interviews I'm asked about my skill level and I explain that I'm no DBA but can perform all the tasks normally required of a developer (ie stored procedures, initial schema set up, a little DTS/SSIS etc) - and that never seems to be a problem.

I'd never apply for a job that listed sql in the role title.

**DimPrawn** · 19 June 2008, 07:58

Generic SQL

You just need "SELECT * FROM table"

Then throw away all the rows you don't want and ignore the columns you are not interested in.

Easy peasy.

HTH

Job specs asking for specific database experience