Retention figures for contractors who have set up Belgian Ltd co's?

[LostInBrussels]

I am now seriously considering setting up as a Ltd company in Belgium. Contractors who are currently doing this, can I ask what your final retention figures are? How much do you pay your accountant?

I realise that a lot depends on expenses - of which I don't have a lot. But I think I will try to offset this by paying as much as I can into the pension.

Any recs for a decent accountant in Belgium who can assist with my accounts would be appreciated.

[acis]

same here ...

I am now seriously considering setting up as a Ltd company in Belgium. Contractors who are currently doing this, can I ask what your final retention figures are? How much do you pay your accountant?

I realise that a lot depends on expenses - of which I don't have a lot. But I think I will try to offset this by paying as much as I can into the pension.

Any recs for a decent accountant in Belgium who can assist with my accounts would be appreciated.

I am having the same dilema. Posted some questions here:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...r-belgium.html

I expect some figures from an accountant next week. The accountant I intend working with charges 620 EUR / Q ... that goes roughly to 2500 Eur/year. This is a better fee as my current accountant would ask 3500 Eur / year for as sprl. I know retention can go as high as 70% but again, if emp has a low salary and lots of expenses. I am also interested in the range of expenses allowed for the company. I know for independent the range and deduction quantum are rather restricting.
Will come back with some contacts on accountant...

[LostInBrussels]

I am having the same dilema. Posted some questions here:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...r-belgium.html

I expect some figures from an accountant next week. The accountant I intend working with charges 620 EUR / Q ... that goes roughly to 2500 Eur/year. This is a better fee as my current accountant would ask 3500 Eur / year for as sprl. I know retention can go as high as 70% but again, if emp has a low salary and lots of expenses. I am also interested in the range of expenses allowed for the company. I know for independent the range and deduction quantum are rather restricting.
Will come back with some contacts on accountant...

Thanks Acis, really appreciate that.

Accountants I have been referred to are charging roughly 4000 per year.

I anticipate having perhaps 100 euros per month of expenses, but as I have never had a pension plan, I was intending to squirrel away as much as I can (around 2000 euros pm) into my pension. However, I spoke to someone who said that I will be allowed to contribute a max of maybe 500 per month, which is a dissappointment.

I also am unclear as to wether the company route or the self employed route is for me. I understand with self employed, the tax returns are easy enough for me to do myself. Feel free to pm me anytime.

[LostInBrussels]

Has anyone considered an SCS? My accountant tells me the legal structure is a societe commandite simple: a structure with the advantages of a SPRL and the advantages of a sole trader structure(no capital needed). What I want to know is what are the drawbacks of an SCS? It also seems to be considerably cheaper to set up. I did a search online but there is not any info.

[acis]

Thanks Acis, really appreciate that.

.....

I sent you a PM with some accountants details as I don't feel appropriate posting plain details on the forum (publicity, privacy ... ) I will post some results of the retention beginning next week as I will receive the results from my accountant. It's also discussed on http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...belgium-2.html ...

What is SCS ? Anybody knows a bit more on that ?

[acis]

following up http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/42939-freelance-tax-high

The subject is discussed here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...belgium-2.html

... i believe it's appropriate to post here more details.

I have met several accountants and I came close to what Rantor posted in the other topics

"Daily rate € 330.00 Yearly 220 € 72,600.00

Gross € 72,600.00
salary € 30,000.00
expenses € 14,400.00 (1200 per mon)
€ 28,200.00
cooperation tax 34% € 9,588.00
€ 18,612.00
witholding tax 15% € 2,791.80
net/dividend € 15,820.20

salary gross € 30,000.00
tax € 7,800.00
social security € 4,700.00
net € 17,500.00

Total revenue: net + expenses 66% € 47,720.20 "

All together, it is clear for me the structure of the taxes. Still I found differences in figures.

There are 3 major taxes:
1. Company taxes (33.9% taxes on profit)
2. Dividend taxes (15% taxes on money pulled out of the company profit)
3. Salary taxes (?18% - ?23% taxes on employee income)
4. Social security taxes (~22% taxes on gross salary, starting from a certain salary value)

There are 4 major scenarios for sprl in Belgium:
1. Company - Big Salary (30K+) - No Dividends
2. Company - Big Salary (30K) - Dividends
3. Company - Small Salary (11-12K) - No dividends
4. Company - Small Salary (11-12K) - Dividends

The salary (employee) may vary and outputs of course different retention figures. The main difference makes the expenses (company costs). The bigger the costs are the more retention received. I have used the numbers in an excel spreadsheet and comparing with the independent, on sprl the costs really makes the difference (independent scheme does not bring much retention on costs due to huge social security taxes!)


Coming back to Rantor example (just for the sake of example) with 6K/month:

A. Case Director salary = 36K && Costs = 15K && No Dividents
Income = 72600
Salary = 36000
Company Costs = 15000 (this is not easy to achieve though!)

1. Company taxes:
Net profit = 72600 - 36000 - 15000 = 21600
Tax on profit (33.99%) = 21600 *0.34 = 5159

2. Dividend taxes:
Dividend tax = 0

3. Salary taxes:
Salary tax = 36000 * 0 .23 = 8280

4. Social security taxes:
SS tax = 36000 * 0.22 = 7920


Output:
All Taxes = 5159 + 8280 + 7920 = 21359
Retention = 71%


B. Case Director salary = 36K && Costs = 15K && With Dividents
Same scenario as A but add tax dividend on left profit:


2. Dividend taxes:
Net profit after paying all taxes = 21600 - 5159 = 16441

Dividend tax = 16441 * 0.15 = 2466

Output:
All Taxes = 5159 + 8280 + 7920 + 2466 = 23825
Retention = 67%


C. Case Director salary = 11K && Costs = 15K && No Dividents

1. Company taxes:
Net profit = 72600 - 11000- 15000 = 50200
Tax on profit (33.99%) = 21600 *0.34 = 17063

2. Dividend taxes:
Dividend tax = 0

3. Salary taxes:
Salary tax = 0

4. Social security taxes:
SS tax = 11000 * 0.22 = 2640

Output:
All Taxes = 17063+ 2640= 19703
Retention = 73%



D. Case Director salary = 11K && Costs = 15K && With Dividents
Same scenario as C but add tax dividend on profit:

Net profit after paying all taxes = 50200 - 17063= 33137

Dividend tax = 33137 * 0.15 = 4970

Output:
All Taxes = 17063+ 4970 + 2640 = 24673
Retention = 64%

Let me know if something's wrong with the figures. Of course retention is high for no dividends but I don't think somebody can leave out of the min salary.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Expenses

[QUOTE=acis;869896]The subject is discussed here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...belgium-2.html


The salary (employee) may vary and outputs of course different retention figures. The main difference makes the expenses (company costs). The bigger the costs are the more retention received. I have used the numbers in an excel spreadsheet and comparing with the independent, on sprl the costs really makes the difference (independent scheme does not bring much retention on costs due to huge social security taxes!)

What expenses can you claim as an independent only
Could I claim accomodation and travel expenses if I did some work in France
or I needed to stay over night in Belgium?

Your biggest cost as SPRL maybe your car but as I do not drive then SPRL
may not be for me.

Investigate also the possibilty of 3rd pillar pension for self employed
which is a real retention.

However, it is legally limited to 8.17% of the net professional income* taken into account to calculate your social security contributions, i.e. your revalued net professional income of three years ago. On an annual basis you can save a minimum of 600 euros and a maximum of 2,781.06 euros (income of 2009).