Did I make a mistake?

[Krav]

Hi All,

Just looking for some advice.

I recently joined an investment bank as a permie and found that everyone in my team are contractors apart from the manager. They are looking for another guy who will most likely be a contractor. So that will be 3 contractors vs. 1 permie.

I have of course thought many times about contracting and have been scratching my head for a while about it. My original plan was to get more experience and then move to a contract. Part of me regrets not joining as a contractor here (they wouldn't have minded at the time I reckon, and another guy at my last place with the same sort of experience interviewed for a contract in the same team but pulled out after being offered leadership role). I did also interview for a contractor role at the same bank and did very well and scored 8/10 but never got the role, but they passed on positive feedback to my current team. I think this was due to lack of experience as I have not done enough greenfield development work despite working for another bank. I have just under 6 years experience, with 2.5 in a bank and the rest in a software house. I accepted the permie as I got a good payrise (30% inc 10% more than I wanted when they knew I was talking to a rival).

Admittedly, the contractors are much older (late 30's, 40's) seasoned professionals whereas I am still in my twenties gracefully gaining experience etc. We get on very well given I have only been here for a few weeks.

I wonder if it is too late to begin discussions on changing my contract? My fear is that having too many contractors makes the team unstable as they will be coming and going (based on my last place), although I appreciate their knowledge.

The interview process was tough and I heard that many contractors had failed it with 2-3 times my experience, so I was glad I got in.

I am on good terms with my manager and his manager too, but do not want to risk screwing up my relationship by opening discussions at the wrong moment having just joined, ruining any chance for future development (employee not settled and does not want to remain here etc).

What should I do?

[rsingh]

In short, No.

HTH

[Thongs]

Instead of being eaten up by jealousy consider the obvious benefits instead.

Each Friday morning will be the highlight of your week for the next 40 years when you all go for breakfast together. The boss may even allow you to wear your casual clothes on a Friday. When the weather is bad you and the other permies can discuss whether you think the boss will let you go home half an hour early. Think of your pension, your 20 days holiday a year that you can take holidaying with Sun readers and the subsidised canteen that does a curry on a Thursday. Think of the excitement when the boss agrees to pay for the wine at your Christmas meal in at the local Beefeater. Think of all the worry about being taken over or being made redundant, and then think of the relief when it doesn't happen. Think how your working life is now mapped out for you for the next 40 years and think of that .5% yearly rise and how you may spend it at the next Next sale.

You are one lucky so and so, there are people out there that would kill to be in a position like yours.

lots of love

Thongs - first time poster, 20 years contracting - permanent jobs......urgghhh makes me shudder!

[Not So Wise]

My original plan was to get more experience and then move to a contract.

Good plan

I have just under 6 years experience, with 2.5 in a bank and the rest in a software house.

Seen people contract with less experience so you are well on the way (as long as gaining the right skills/experience)

I accepted the permie as I got a good payrise (30% inc 10% more than I wanted when they knew I was talking to a rival).

40% payrise in current market conditions is nothing to be sneezed at

I wonder if it is too late to begin discussions on changing my contract?

You don't have a "contract" you are permie and if you move from permie to contract at same position/company you will be IR35 burned, thus you will probably not be much better off, if at all

My fear is that having too many contractors makes the team unstable as they will be coming and going (based on my last place),

You the boss? If not then it's not your problem

What should I do?

Look outside your cubicle,notice it's a bloody recession out there, rates are down and many contractors have been benched for a long time?

Now do you think you should sit happy with your 40% pay rise in permiedom until economy and market improve or risk it all by moving to contracting at the moment?


Some people

[Lewis]

I would be amazed if you were able to switch from permie to contract once you've started. It would be an admin nightmare that I dobt they would agree to and you would also be caught by IR35 (as permie to contractor in same role is exactly what it was designed to catch) which means the financial benefits of contracting would be largely lost.

They would, I suspect, also think you are doing it just for the money, having realised everyone else is a contractor, which wouldn't relflect well on you.

In every IB team I've been on it is mostly contractors but there are always 1 or 2 permies on the team - I assume because they don't like a 100% contractor team. They may have deliberately got you to be the 1 permie on the team, i.e. that they don't want you to be a contractor.

In my opinion, if you want to contract you have to set your mind to it and find one elsewhere but then people will ask "why did you leave so soon?".

I think you are best to stick it out for a year, get some experience and then contract later, or just stay and work your way up the permie ladder. Contracting is a different way of life - not just about money. As a permie you can work your way up, as a contractor you don't expect to be around too long.

You need to decide what way of life you want and follow that path ... if everyone else was permie I suspect you would feel better ...

[singhr]

You are either naive or a troll I can't decide which

[norrahe]

You are either naive or a troll I can't decide which

Both

[nomadd]

My fear is that having too many contractors makes the team unstable as they will be coming and going...

Other people on this thread accuse you of being a troll. I'd just like to add to that list: A bored agent; Or a complete idiot.

Not sure which of these you are. But... If you really are a permie in the position you describe, just stay where you are, for your own sake!

[bobspud]

Hi,
you should probably sit tight. The chances are, you would not have made it to interview, if you had been going for a contract role rather than the permie one you landed. Just think of it as a nice safe place to sit and learn somthing.

[SBK1972]

Dude I feel your pain. I was in the same situation 14 years ago, I got a permie job at Nomura @ St Pauls, a good £23K more than my then current job. I was well pleased but once I'd started noticed the whole desk were contractors and the development structure / training for us permie's was pi55 poor.

I worked there for 6 months, did my 'tour of duty' so to speak then asked my manager if I could be trained up, or move around the different departments to learn the business, "No" was the answer. Also, one day the contractor next to me asked me what 'NFS' was. He was on a good £400 a day and didnt know that !!!. This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and made me release that you will never beat contractors, so you might as well join them. That day I created my company and looked for a new role.

However, be warned, the investment banks are very insestual environments. Its not whatyou know, but who you know. I gave my notice in to my manager, stating I was leaving to go back to Sussex / family reasons as I didnt want to say I was going contracting and leave a bad taste behind due to only being there for 6months.

I'd managed to get a contract with Credit Sussie but had told no one at Nomura. I then worked off my 4 weeks notice, but during week 3 of 4 I mentioned to someone I was off to Credit Sussie purely by accident. On week 4 the head of the IT department came up to me and mentioned that he'd heard I was going to Credit Sussie and I should check with my new job agent, who I rang and was told that the contract had be cancelled that day. Noruma didnt want me back and so I left a high paying position, with no contract, no job, no money but a very valuable lession learnt.

I soon got another contract and 14years later contracting has done me well. So, myadvice to you is not to leave with a bad taste, work out 6 months whilst you create your new company, then resign and get a contract. Most contracts like an immediate start, but some are willing to wait. So, you might have to make a decision to quit, then look, or try to find a contract that will wait.

To be honest, looking at the market, I would definately work 6months, try to get as much training, picking up new skills. It will be a HR nightmare for you to change from a permie to a contractor, so dont even bother, look else where.

What everyou do, best of luck. As for contracting and right skills / experience, well I dont think there's ever a right amount, and you just need to take the big step. I started contracting a little too early if I was honest, and soon learnt that you need to learn on the job, always ask questions and trying to suck the info / wisdom from everyone you work with.

Best of luck with what ever you do :-)
SBK

SBK