Should you appear desperate for redundancy?

[Peejay]

First post, read loads, go easy on me!

In a nutshell I'm a 14-year permie veteran and have been thinking about contracting for the last couple of years (having been surrounded by idiots on contracts earning way more than me making fools of themselves) but haven't been in a position to take the plunge due to 0 savings (so no warchest).

I'm now in a position where I *should* be getting redundancy which I'd be ecstatic about but can't believe how HR are dragging their heels.

I've TUPE'd twice so have some decent historic T's &C's, one being no "mobility clause" & second being decent (IMO) redundancy package. Biggest gripe I have is the pay is tulip and has been for some time.

I've had some internal "assignments" offered to me but they're based on working in London 5 days/wk (I'm midlands-based) and they offered me the equivalent of £50/wk "uplift" for this priviledge, oh, plus they wanted me to add the mobility clause to my contract :-O

So, I politely declined their offer and basically said I'll wait/look for a position "close to home" (which I know isn't going to materialise).

I'd "heard" from others that redundancy kicked in at my place if you spent 3 months on the bench (you're supposed to be put "at risk" after 4 weeks at least) but I can't find anything official on the company intranet.

As it happens, HR must seem to keep thinking I've fallen off the face of the planet as I'm now in week 13 on the internal bench, on full pay! It's been an enviable (if boring) position for sure but I've now been offered a serious contract on my doorstep (on a day-rate that's roughly treble my current gross).

So, my question is, should I show my cards & push harder for redundancy or will they think "if he's desperate enough for his next job he'll just leave anyway". Never having faced redundancy before I'm not really sure how it all works (and previous work was far from "office job" so no history to compare to).

Having skimmed through the redundancy rights on DirectGov it seems they're supposed to give me 3 months notice of redundancy as well (I've had nowt) so, as 3 months on contract is worth far more, is it worth me "throwing them a bone" & forgoing the notice period to save them 3 months salary (and risk of finding me another job close to home) or are such rights rigid?

Obviously I want to avoid walking away from a potentially decent redundancy payout!

Any views appreciated...

Paul

[malvolio]

Three things:

1. Describing contractors as "having been surrounded by idiots on contracts earning way more than me making fools of themselves" is not a good start. If you want to earn loads more money yourself (which is a bad reason to go contracting in this market anyway), who was being the bigger fool?

2. Contractors who earn big money are very good at their job and have a lot of history of delivery as contractors. You won't have. As I've said elsewhere, come and join in if you think you're good enough. The first step is not having an income while you get going...

3. Asking for redundancy if it's not been offered is more simply expressed as "resigning". Same result but no redundancy money.

So, want to try again?

[fullyautomatix]

Redundancy money is offered in usually as a means for the employee to fund himself while he gets another job. Highly skilled employees get a new one in a week and so the redundancy money is just extra cash.

In your case, you already have a contract ( not paper, verbal I guess), so why hang around for the money ? Chuck your notice in and get going on the contract. Remember, unless you get a signed contract its not yet yours, so be careful on how you play this. You dont want to end up with no job and no contract.

[Antman]

Hi,

I was in the same situation as yourself (no warchest) but without the redundancy element (off-topic and seriously how many permies have got zero savings? with just me working for myself, the wife and two bairns we were borrowing money each year - no holidays either). When I got an offer from a client who was prepared to wait for the 4-week notice period I jumped at the chance.

You will have to do the maths, maybe you could just approach them and sound them out redundancy about leaving? you reach a civilised agreement blah blah

I will also say "are you prepared to get on your bike and follow the jobs?" a few searches on jobserve will show where the majority of jobs are, do you mind travelodging it if you can't find anything on your doorstep?

[Peejay]

Apologies for sounding "arrogant" towards contractors, it wasn't intended. It's just that the contractors I've been experiencing over the last few years seem to be great at the BS but just can't deliver & ended up getting great money for doing feck all (more power to 'em I guess!).

Most of them have been telling me I should be contracting with my skills so I'm looking to give it a go.

I'm more than happy to travel for the right contract - spent best part of a couple of years in the Middle-East for the MOD recently so no problems there.

I don't want to blow the chance of best part of a years-worth of potential warchest if I can get the redundancy, hence not wanting to jump ship too soon.

The potential contract is verbal at the moment with meeting scheduled for tomorrow to get closer to formalising it (basically an ex-colleague is the one calling the shots & he wants me there so I'm pretty confident of the opportunity, he seems 100% confident).

As I mentioned, my understanding was that the redundancy kicked in pretty much automatically after 3 months but the lack of HR contact (not even chasing me to find alternative work internally!) I think is why things aren't running smoothly. Them getting confused as to which sector (internally) I sit in probably doesn't help matters when they're thinking someone else is dealing with me!

Paul

[TheFaQQer]

Not knowing what you do, or whether you are any good at it......

Are you genuinely saying that you don't want to work away from home, or is that something that you are saying to try and get redundancy?

These days, you've got to be pretty flexible about where you work - particularly if you have no savings and can't afford to be picky about where you work / what you do / what you get paid.

Including my consultancy days, this is the second client I've worked with where I was anywhere near home. The majority of the work that I do is in London, so if you are genuinely inflexible on location, I'd look for a permie job near where you live.

Finally, just because you see contractors working with you - are you certain they are on a significant amount more than you are? How much paid holiday did you get this year? Or sick pay? Or paid to have bank holidays? Or training? Pension? Benefits?

Perception isn't everything.

[Peejay]

(My area is Technical Architecture)

It's not that I won't work away from home, I've told them I'll happily work away from home for the right money/package.

However, given that my current terms essentially only state "you may be required to change office", spending 5 days/week in London (plus having a mobility clause on my contract) I delined their £50/w "uplift" offer. It wouldn't be so bad but they haven't even asked me what I WOULD want so there hasn't even been a negotiation of any kind!

[tractor]

..

First post, read loads, go easy on me!

In a nutshell I'm a 14-year permie veteran and have been thinking about contracting for the last couple of years (having been surrounded by idiots on contracts earning way more than me making fools of themselves) but haven't been in a position to take the plunge due to 0 savings (so no warchest).

...


Any views appreciated...

Paul

When I started contracting, I had a 15 yr old car and about £200 and 3 kids.

Are you sure you are ready for the big, wide, risky world?

[v8gaz]

But of course someone who really does have that contractor mentality would take the contract while still taking the permie wage and pushing for redundo cash?*

*this is probably illegal, although I would have a good look at your employment contract to be sure. Neither v8gaz nor ContractorUK condone breaking any laws or contracts.

[d000hg]

Three things:

1. Describing contractors as "having been surrounded by idiots on contracts earning way more than me making fools of themselves" is not a good start.

Contractors here say just as bad things about permies, stop being so sensitive. He's making the point that he sees contractors who are not highly skilled, that's all. Hardly shocking news.