Frankfurt versus Zürich

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What would you do ? I think I'm being a wuss asking this in a forum but >

Newbie question. I'm a Brit contracting in Frankfurt (only around €450/day I'm afraid but might be able to get a bit more) and I'm fairly comfortable here although socially it isn't great as I don't speak German. Compared to UK this town is fairly dull but safe/civilised. Life is kind of easy and there is no stress at all after previously working in London hot houses. After 2 years here I'm ready to look at other things. Been offered perm. position (never had one before) in Zürich for around 120K CHF/year (I think that's around 80% take-home). Not much by UK standards but I don't think they will go to more. It is a bank and I guess might be more intense work than FFM (but surely not UK City levels of unproductive long-hours, office politics bollocks). Maybe I should look for/wait for a contract job there instead. But heard that with the tax system contracting isn't all that good in Switzerland so perm works out better as they Swiss build in various pluses to the package. Minimum 3 months notice period on apartments sounds like a 'mare if you're contracting and the client doesn't need you any more and says Bye Bye.

Heard totally conflicting reports about Zurich: some very positive/some very negative. Would you swap Frankfurt for Zurich ? It seems so expensive and bureaucratic with all those rules when renting for example. But it would be another life experience and near the hiking, ski and reasonable pleasant. Is it just an expensive, uptight, upmarket version of FFM ? Here you can save cash without any big effort as most things like rent are quite modestly priced. Got a feeling that I would blow all my income just on living in Zurich (like some mates do in London ). Been once for a weekend party and was a bit shocked at the prices. And some of the rules seemed a bit anal.

Which is the winner?

Richard.

Hope I posted this in the right spot.

I promise to come up with a more funky nickname ASAP.

[Crown Royal]

Switzerland

120K CHF is an ok salary, if you're single. If you got a family and that's the sole income, then it's not so attractive.

But the social security system is probably the best in the world, if you ever go unemployed (somthing like a max of 7000 CHF a month for up to 18 months as unemployment benefit)

The taxes are a bit lower than say Germany or France, but you pay a lot in user fees (i.e. medical insurance) You should look at around 1500 - 2000 CHF/mo for a 1-2 bdrm apartment, outside of central Zurich. Rents are comparable with Paris, I'd say. Some things are cheaper, like cars, electronic goods, petrol etc. but food is much more expensive (both groceries and eating out)

Overall, after living in Switzerland for the past couple of years, I'd say it's a nice country, good quality of life, but also quite boring - especially Zurich and Geneva. That's why I left - I just found the country to be so dull and un-inspiring but other than that I don't have any complaints about what is one of the better countries in Europe to live/work and make some decent coin!

[wendigo100]

Zurich might be boring, but Swiss people combine the characteristics of the Germans, the French and the Italians.

[TheMonkey]

Let's just add the "nice characteristics". Zurich is ok - there are some slightly not so boring clubs there (or there were in 1998).

I'm thinking about moving out to Switzerland (Bulach nr Zurich) as I have a ton of family there

[expat]

Zurich might be boring, but Swiss people combine the characteristics of the Germans, the French and the Italians.

The best of each, or the worst of each? I shudder to imagine.

[BlasterBates]

Financially you'll be better off in Germany. If your freelancing then you only pay tax which isn't too bad, and Frankfurt is a lot cheaper than Zurich, plus you ought to be earning better rate than CH 120,000. Don't be fooled by the it is "better to be permie" bollox. It is just that bollox. Of course its better to contract. The take home is actually 70% but 10% goes into a compulsory pension scheme. If you're contracting you can get that money back if you leave within five years.

You're right about German, if you were to do a course in German and learn the language, your social life will be transformed. It is actually a great fun place. But if you're restricted to a couple of English speakers from work that does sound boring. A mixed group is a good start.

As for pressure, there is as little pressure in Zurich as in Frankfurt.


You've hit the nail on the head the thing abut living in Frankfurt or Zurich compared to London is that you have an easy stress free life. So all you need to do is sort your social life, and bingo you have it made.

[Joe Black.]

Hey there. I worked for European Central Bank in Frankfurt for a while and I worked for Cisco in Zurich. Yes Frankfurt is boring, I was playing rugby there which helped so had a great social life. But the bars/clubs there are a bit sterile as you probably know. I don't know Zurich as well as I do Frankfurt, but the nightlife in Z. was heaps better and I found the Swiss more amiable than the Germans. But the good thing about Z. is you have some of the best ski resorts in the world on your doorstep. Davos is only a 3 hours train trip away so is doable for weekends. I thought rent in Z. was cheaper than in F. but can't remember. I don't think the cost of living is that much different. If you really are just in Europe for the money then you need to go where u can save the most, but if you want to have a good time then go with Z. Skiing is not cheap! There is much more to see in Z. I would pick it over Frankfurt any day. The only downside is that in F. most people speak English, In Z. I came across quite a few who didn't (or wouldn't more than likely), but this would give u the opportunity to learn deutsch. I'm sure you can already order a heiferwitzer in German though!

[Joe Black.]

The best of each, or the worst of each? I shudder to imagine.

Ha ha yeah can u imagine the worst characteristics? A rude person with no sense of humour and bad dress sense.

[milanbenes]

get yourself down to Living

sorted

Milan.

[BlasterBates]

I'm now living in Zurich having lived in Frankfurt but actually I prefer Frankfurt, interestingly if anything its the bars in Zurich that appear more sterile to me. But what it comes down to, is who you know. In fact I know one or two English people who commute to London but come back to Frankfurt at the weekend.

When I go and meet the crowd (and there are several of them) there is usually 20 or 30 of us, so lets face it I probably wouldn't notice whether the bar was sterile before we got there.