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View Full Version : Seminar on HMRC actions, EBT's and Tax Assessments/Enquiries/COP 8



Michael J Perry FCA
12th March 2013, 12:25
Please see revised arrangements as set out below.

I have removed this content as it is now out of date.

convict
13th March 2013, 11:54
Thanks Michael and DD. Anything I can do to help, PM me.

LordF
13th March 2013, 13:35
Thanks Michael and DD. Anything I can do to help, PM me.

Same, happy to help in any way guys.

convict
15th March 2013, 15:26
Michael/Dan,

Where are we with this? I haven't heard anything in a while

Do you want me to set up a poll on doodle and gather the number of attendees?
Have you made any progress on getting a venue booked?

I'm happy to do both of the above if need be.

/Convict

convict
18th March 2013, 14:36
We need to get numbers for rooms etc.

I've set up a poll to gauge attendance for one of three dates

11 to 3 at a Central London location, to be determined.

Please vote ASAP
Doodle Poll (http://doodle.com/eeed76f2vu7rbfec)

The plan will be for Michael to do a group presentation and Q/A session. Should time allow Michael is willing to have some one on one dialogue (best endeavours only).

Room costs to be split among the attendees. I'll pay upfront etc but I need to know how many will attend so I can book a suitable location

varunksingh
18th March 2013, 20:38
Should we start making a list of questions for Michael as well? or should be PM to Michael directly.

RTP
18th March 2013, 23:27
Count me in, I've responded to the poll on Doodle.

convict
19th March 2013, 09:02
As it stands we have three dates on the poll, one of which is for this Sunday. I will leave the poll open until Thursday Midday UK time. Only if there is significantly more desire to hold the seminar this Sunday will I stop the poll completely and book it for that date.

If thing continue as they are then 24th March will be third choice and I will remove that option due to lead times and logistics and continue the poll for 6/7 April, closing the poll on the 2nd April.

HeartAttackMan
19th March 2013, 17:17
Hi - count me in too.

CDJ
19th March 2013, 21:02
Hello.. Have added my vote to Doodle.. If the date does work out for me wil very much be interested in attending.

Admins.. can get access to PM please

<admin note - pm rights granted />

LordF
19th March 2013, 22:18
As it stands we have three dates on the poll, one of which is for this Sunday. I will leave the poll open until Thursday Midday UK time. Only if there is significantly more desire to hold the seminar this Sunday will I stop the poll completely and book it for that date.

If thing continue as they are then 24th March will be third choice and I will remove that option due to lead times and logistics and continue the poll for 6/7 April, closing the poll on the 2nd April.

As much as I really want to attend I cant at any of these dates. Pity !

convict
21st March 2013, 13:37
I've removed the option for this Sunday as this had the least number of vote (yes plus maybes).

Saturday or Sunday 6th/7th April are still there to choose from.

convict
21st March 2013, 13:52
All,

Here's the draft agenda. Location still TBC but will be in central London/Westminster area

11.00-11.10 get settled/introductions
11:10-12:15 Michael's presentation*
12:15-12:30 Break
12:30:14:00 Q/A. Generic questions only, please no personal questions during this time
14:00-15:00 Time for Michael to have 1:1 chats as time allows

*I'll provide more info on the main points of the presentation soon.

The room will be booked from 11am to 3pm.
Schedule subject to change/alteration as needed.

mukil
22nd March 2013, 15:19
Thank you all for your great effort.

DD x 2 - Another Sanzar friend is joining me.

Mukil

vern19
24th March 2013, 20:06
I would like to attend.
Thanks

mdg
25th March 2013, 09:26
Hi

I would like to attend too. 6/7 April are both good for me in London.

MDG

anejnz
25th March 2013, 10:45
All,

Here's the draft agenda. Location still TBC but will be in central London/Westminster area

11.00-11.10 get settled/introductions
11:10-12:15 Michael's presentation*
12:15-12:30 Break
12:30:14:00 Q/A. Generic questions only, please no personal questions during this time
14:00-15:00 Time for Michael to have 1:1 chats as time allows

*I'll provide more info on the main points of the presentation soon.

The room will be booked from 11am to 3pm.
Schedule subject to change/alteration as needed.

I would like to attend too. 6 April is good for me in London.

Mentor
25th March 2013, 11:41
I would like to attend too. 6 April is good for me in London.

I would also like to attend, can i have PM access and also details of the meeting. Im a Ex Edge user. Thanks

<admin note - PM rights granted />

brazzer
25th March 2013, 17:11
All,

Here's the draft agenda. Location still TBC but will be in central London/Westminster area

11.00-11.10 get settled/introductions
11:10-12:15 Michael's presentation*
12:15-12:30 Break
12:30:14:00 Q/A. Generic questions only, please no personal questions during this time
14:00-15:00 Time for Michael to have 1:1 chats as time allows

*I'll provide more info on the main points of the presentation soon.

The room will be booked from 11am to 3pm.
Schedule subject to change/alteration as needed.

As an ex-TRM user, I would also like to attend... May I have PM access so I can register please...

convict
25th March 2013, 19:28
As an ex-TRM user, I would also like to attend... May I have PM access so I can register please...

Please see post #5 of this thread.

m1kto
26th March 2013, 00:36
Hi, I'd like to attend and have cast my vote on Doodle.

Admin, can I get PM rights please?

Thanks.

fallguy
26th March 2013, 08:14
Hi, I would also like to attend, Saturday or sunday is fine for me. Many thanks

eek
26th March 2013, 09:06
Hi, I'd like to attend and have cast my vote on Doodle.

Admin, can I get PM rights please?

Thanks.


Hi, I would also like to attend, Saturday or sunday is fine for me. Many thanks

You don't need pm rights you do however need to follow the advice below.


We need to get numbers for rooms etc.

I've set up a poll to gauge attendance for one of three dates

11 to 3 at a Central London location, to be determined.

Please vote ASAP
Doodle Poll (http://doodle.com/eeed76f2vu7rbfec)

The plan will be for Michael to do a group presentation and Q/A session. Should time allow Michael is willing to have some one on one dialogue (best endeavours only).

Room costs to be split among the attendees. I'll pay upfront etc but I need to know how many will attend so I can book a suitable location

convict
28th March 2013, 08:53
Updated contents for Michael's presentation:

Many of the most frequently asked questions
HMRC's powers, tactics, political and strategic agendas
Reference to essential further information
A no holds barred informative analysis of the situation
Likely future developments and possible outcomes


IMPORTANT:
On Tuesday morning I will close the poll, select the most popular choice and remove the other one. I will then book and pay for the room.

Can people then update their poll entry on the Doodle Poll (http://doodle.com/eeed76f2vu7rbfec) and send an email to hmrc0809@gmail.com (that's my throwaway email) with the name used in the poll, your preferred contact email address and real name. This will serve as your comfirmation to attend. I will then email out the location details and other info.

Payment will be required on the day. CASH ONLY, priced somewhere around 30 pounds depending on the numbers. I will confirm the price before the day by email.

Have a nice Easter!





All,

Here's the draft agenda. Location still TBC but will be in central London/Westminster area

11.00-11.10 get settled/introductions
11:10-12:15 Michael's presentation*
12:15-12:30 Break
12:30:14:00 Q/A. Generic questions only, please no personal questions during this time
14:00-15:00 Time for Michael to have 1:1 chats as time allows

*I'll provide more info on the main points of the presentation soon.

The room will be booked from 11am to 3pm.
Schedule subject to change/alteration as needed.

convict
2nd April 2013, 07:42
The most popular date is Saturday 6th April. I will book a location today.

Please go to the poll link and update your attendance and then email me on hmrc0809 with your poll name, email, and real name. I'll book a location this morning and include the location in the email reply.

escargot
2nd April 2013, 13:02
Convict, I pinged you an email about Saturday. Cheers.

convict
3rd April 2013, 08:16
All,

So far I've had about 20 out of 60+ people contact me regarding the seminar on Saturday.

Can the rest of you that plan on attending as per the doodle poll please contact me on hmrc0809@gmail.com with your doodle pollname, real name, and email address ASAP. I'll then send you the official invite with location details etc.


I've paid for the room hire and would really appreciate confirmation responses from those that haven't yet done so ASAP.

Thanks

CDJ
4th April 2013, 08:02
All,

So far I've had about 20 out of 60+ people contact me regarding the seminar on Saturday.

Can the rest of you that plan on attending as per the doodle poll please contact me on hmrc0809@gmail.com with your doodle pollname, real name, and email address ASAP. I'll then send you the official invite with location details etc.


I've paid for the room hire and would really appreciate confirmation responses from those that haven't yet done so ASAP.

Thanks

Hi Convict/Michael

I unfortunately can't make the Saturday, but am very interested in getting as much information as possible. If it is available, I would be more than happy to contribute to costs if there was any material/info packs/recordings available from Saturday.

If you could drop me a quick PM if so..

Cheers
CDJ

MARYB
4th April 2013, 19:20
Hi Convict/Michael

Thank for both for your work on this. Its good to know there are others in the same boat and people willing to discuss and help.

I may be keen to go this weekend however before committing I was just wondering what is Michael's background in regards to EBTs etc? On what basis is he going to be presenting information?

Second question is more a point for the next seminar. Perhaps one of the large accounting firms that represent clients facing HMRC inquiries or those that act as agents when trying to settle/defend with HMRC may be keen to host us one weekend provided they are allocated a time slot to sell their services as part of the deal. Kingstonsmith, KPMG, PWC all offer these services and I am sure they would offer up a conference room and a couple of staff to get access to potential clients. This would save everyone the 30 pounds going forward and provide us with more options.

Many thanks

Mary

cojak
4th April 2013, 20:02
If you want to organise the next seminar with the likes of KPMG attending, please feel free to do so Mary. As far as I'm aware this is the only seminar to be arranged in this manner.

Michael is the only tax adviser who has put his head above the parapet and volunteered his time on this forum, others are welcome to post should they choose to do so.

HeartAttackMan
5th April 2013, 11:13
Hi Convict,

I've replied to the hmrc email address you posted, but I haven't yet received a reply.

I just wanted to confirm that you had me on the list?

Thanks,
HAM

convict
5th April 2013, 13:38
Hi Convict,

I've replied to the hmrc email address you posted, but I haven't yet received a reply.

I just wanted to confirm that you had me on the list?

Thanks,
HAM

please resend to hmrc0809@gmail.com and/or pm me your email address.

fallguy
7th April 2013, 09:28
Hey convict really sorry didn't keep up to date on this. How did it go yesterday? Will there be any notes at all?

mdg
7th April 2013, 09:38
Hi Convict/Michael

I unfortunately can't make the Saturday, but am very interested in getting as much information as possible. If it is available, I would be more than happy to contribute to costs if there was any material/info packs/recordings available from Saturday.

If you could drop me a quick PM if so..

Cheers
CDJ

Hi Convict / Michael

I unfortunately could not make saturday as away so missed it. I'd be happy to contribute also to be involved and see the materials etc.

Please send me a PM for this also if this works
Thanks
Matt

Shrek77
7th April 2013, 17:34
Hi

I've been away So also
Unable to attend . I'd also be interested in contributing in return for info from seminar

LordF
8th April 2013, 04:58
Hi

I've been away So also
Unable to attend . I'd also be interested in contributing in return for info from seminar

Also been away due to school holidays, happy to contribute if there are any material that can be shared.

convict
8th April 2013, 07:39
Also been away due to school holidays, happy to contribute if there are any material that can be shared.

I did capture the event. Unfortunately I only got the first 20 minutes of the presentation plus the QA session*. I've not looked at it yet to see if quality is usable. Once I've had a chance to go through it I'll report back.

* I captured in 1080p and it looks like my android device allows for max ~2GB files, hence it crapping out after 20 minutes. I spotted this after the first session so started a new file every ~20 mins for the QA session.

bstar1
8th April 2013, 09:19
Like some of you I attended the seminar and basically it was a reality check on the situation from our perspective and the HMRC perspective, Michael was articulate and accurate in recalling off facts and didn’t hold back as to worst case scenarios, but to summarise::there is no solution or what’s going to happen next....we are not in control of this.

One of the positives I got from the meeting was we all had a common concern and cause and we could all interact face to face whilst all being there.

After mulling it over at the weekend, I realised, that this is not going to go away, not only for 08/09 and there is a likely hood that previous and current years could also get resurrected for liability, and this may happen to some of us and for some it might just be postponed for a few years and yes some may get away scot free. I say Scot Free but that would only be after 20years of that tax year as this is ultimately how far HMRC can go back, one thing I don’t think can be changed from retrospective law. This attack on loans is being driven politically from central government; the only way I can see it stopping is if central government changes focus and so much can happen in 20 odd years.

So what do we do? HMRC are on the attack as an organised and financially resourceful unit, we're all sitting ducks, reading a lot and making opinions and some writing letters and some meeting with PM’s, some waiting and watching, I don’t think that cuts it enough to be honest, yes we have the NRTM but we also need to attack, it’s a scheme we believe in and it worked and was lawful.

We ALL have a common cause but a very worthy opponent. Most of you have done the response appeals for 08/09 but what about previous years and current years? These are all potential liabilities.

We need to get organised and become financially resourceful against ALL potential liabilities, someone is going to be taken to tribunal are we really just going to sit it out and see, especially when our opponent is so worthy they will be up against a minor with a second rate tax barrister and then accept that this will set the president for all of us not just for 08/09 but all years past & present ....it’s a huge risk a worse one than when we decided to join these EBT schemes.

What we need is insurance in that for the next 20 years or so, if this dies and then gets resurrected or dies again and get resurrected aging we are protected; POLL TAX was abolished by the people not government, hasn’t come back yet...why??

Think about the entire loans you have and if you would put money into an organised, robust tax insurance policy specifically designed to defend against a loan agreement be it from and EBT scheme, MSC scheme etc that will fight your case with more than enough financial capital thorough to the European level which will then set the precedent not only for you but everyone, at least we gave it good whatever happens and what’s the loss to do so ....say £1000 ....if there were 500 of us we’d have a £500,000 bond against HMRC, and if there were 1000 or 2000 of us. We all need to be part of one policy to insure us against specifically for EBT’s.

I’m not one for spearheading this, this is just my opinion and for your thoughts to be triggered.

Sky Rocket
8th April 2013, 11:44
Like some of you I attended the seminar and basically it was a reality check on the situation from our perspective and the HMRC perspective, Michael was articulate and accurate in recalling off facts and didn’t hold back as to worst case scenarios, but to summarise::there is no solution or what’s going to happen next....we are not in control of this.

One of the positives I got from the meeting was we all had a common concern and cause and we could all interact face to face whilst all being there.

After mulling it over at the weekend, I realised, that this is not going to go away, not only for 08/09 and there is a likely hood that previous and current years could also get resurrected for liability, and this may happen to some of us and for some it might just be postponed for a few years and yes some may get away scot free. I say Scot Free but that would only be after 20years of that tax year as this is ultimately how far HMRC can go back, one thing I don’t think can be changed from retrospective law. This attack on loans is being driven politically from central government; the only way I can see it stopping is if central government changes focus and so much can happen in 20 odd years.

So what do we do? HMRC are on the attack as an organised and financially resourceful unit, we're all sitting ducks, reading a lot and making opinions and some writing letters and some meeting with PM’s, some waiting and watching, I don’t think that cuts it enough to be honest, yes we have the NRTM but we also need to attack, it’s a scheme we believe in and it worked and was lawful.

We ALL have a common cause but a very worthy opponent. Most of you have done the response appeals for 08/09 but what about previous years and current years? These are all potential liabilities.

We need to get organised and become financially resourceful against ALL potential liabilities, someone is going to be taken to tribunal are we really just going to sit it out and see, especially when our opponent is so worthy they will be up against a minor with a second rate tax barrister and then accept that this will set the president for all of us not just for 08/09 but all years past & present ....it’s a huge risk a worse one than when we decided to join these EBT schemes.

What we need is insurance in that for the next 20 years or so, if this dies and then gets resurrected or dies again and get resurrected aging we are protected; POLL TAX was abolished by the people not government, hasn’t come back yet...why??

Think about the entire loans you have and if you would put money into an organised, robust tax insurance policy specifically designed to defend against a loan agreement be it from and EBT scheme, MSC scheme etc that will fight your case with more than enough financial capital thorough to the European level which will then set the precedent not only for you but everyone, at least we gave it good whatever happens and what’s the loss to do so ....say £1000 ....if there were 500 of us we’d have a £500,000 bond against HMRC, and if there were 1000 or 2000 of us. We all need to be part of one policy to insure us against specifically for EBT’s.

I’m not one for spearheading this, this is just my opinion and for your thoughts to be triggered.


My thoughts are, even if an insurance policy did exist, it would be very unlikely that they would insure you, bearing in mind we've already been notified by HMRC that we're being looked into....

bstar1
8th April 2013, 11:49
My thoughts are, even if an insurance policy did exist, it would be very unlikely that they would insure you, bearing in mind we've already been notified by HMRC that we're being looked into....

Apologies...I stand corrected, I incorrectly defined the term "insurance", I meant a sinking fund of some sort that is administered professionally to fight a case that will set the president for all of us but fight it well., should it EVER come to it or go the distance to European level.

Shrek77
8th April 2013, 16:39
If there was an insurance policy available to cover costs and tax liabilities for this I would sign up immediately however i dont think there is.

Like you the reality of the situation is that this will not go away and to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. So I will in the first instance get a CTD to stop any additional interest accrues for 08/09. I will then save every penny i have to ensure I have adequate money in place to weather any other potential liabilities.

Did anyone ask Michael how succesful he had been in terms of success at Tribunal, hearings etc? If the response is....you should of gone to the seminar...then fair enough!



Sorry what is a CTD? I too am saving every penny towards any further potential liabilities but with interest adding on all the time it means the goal post will be forever moving!

aexport
8th April 2013, 20:11
Sorry what is a CTD? I too am saving every penny towards any further potential liabilities but with interest adding on all the time it means the goal post will be forever moving!

HM Revenue & Customs: The Certificate of Tax Deposit scheme (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payinghmrc/cert-tax-deposit.htm)
"Under the Certificate of Tax Deposit scheme you can make deposits with HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) for later use to pay off certain tax liabilities"

bedworthlad1972
9th April 2013, 19:37
If there was an insurance policy available to cover costs and tax liabilities for this I would sign up immediately however i dont think there is.

Like you the reality of the situation is that this will not go away and to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. So I will in the first instance get a CTD to stop any additional interest accrues for 08/09. I will then save every penny i have to ensure I have adequate money in place to weather any other potential liabilities.

Did anyone ask Michael how succesful he had been in terms of success at Tribunal, hearings etc? If the response is....you should of gone to the seminar...then fair enough!

Is the outcome "view" of the seminar basically pessimistic then? Or is it just that there's little we can do but hope and wait? It's just that the tone of "the reality of the situation is that this will not go away" is somewhat unnerving, although I am certainly not naive to the possibility that I could be shelling out money to the HMRC in a few years.

smgrant78
11th April 2013, 22:22
I also missed the seminar but reading the thread it seems (as expected) we are in the sit and wait period.

Most have appealed, the government has written back to say it has deferred the tax liability (for now!) and is adding punitive interest.

I sense this will not go away and would be interested in establishing a 'fighting fund' as a collective fund will give us greater strength against the deep pockets of HMRC.

Jashan
16th April 2013, 11:29
Sorry missed the seminar. I have provided availability in the doodle poll, but did not receive any confirmation of seminar. So thought it all went cold. But good to know that it did indeed happen. Would appreciate if anyone can throw some light on what happened at the seminar, or upload the video to youtube or so (selectively share the video). Happy to share the costs, if any.

nubie
30th May 2013, 12:47
Hi Guys,

Im late to the party as post was sent to wrong address, HMRC are accepting my appeal and this is being sent now! I am happy to contribute to the fund also and fight this all the way!

Is there anyway we can purchase the presentation at all?

How long could this go on for?