Is this Will of the People?

[sasguru]

That I have to concur with. And it isn't a good thing, as a 52/48 Remain result would have been hijacked by the EU project as "Even Britain is on board, lets get on with this this", pretty much in the same way a 52/48 Leave result has been hijacked by the no-deal brigade (the very ones who were talking about remaining in the single market before the referendum as part of their Project Lies).

We will lose out by leaving the EU, and it will almost certainly not be a price worth paying to take the ultimate isolationist line. Frictionless Trade is always going to be better than trade with friction. Me being able to freely take up a job in Amsterdam is better than not being able to. Financial institutions being based in the UK, paying UK taxes (stamp duty, corporation tax, employee taxes) is always going to be better than them moving their EU operations out of the UK.

JRM et al are getting free pass to making outrageous claims like this without anything to back it up

and yet anybody who counters it is scaremongering, or it is project fear.

Facts are being denounced as nonsense by anybody who can't be arsed understanding the implications or researching them.

The "I'm not a pilot, it doesn't affect me" or the "This is just a paperwork exercise" attitude to today's news that UK issued EASA pilots licences will no longer be valid once the UK falls out of EASA when it leaves the EU is typical of pretty much everything that is happening.

The "We won, you lost, get over it" attitude of the gammons (Chances are, if you're a leave voter and that isn't your attitude, then you're not a Gammon) is just... just. It's barmy and lacks rationale or reason. The past two years I have seen a side to people that I never thought was there.

I don't know how we box this off. I voted Leave, I don't support the "Hard Brexit" direction, and I don't really support the closer political union the EU is taken but I am pro a lot of the benefits of the EU (including all four freedoms). The baby is being thrown out with the bathwater and most of us will end up a lot worse off for it.

Actually Cameron did get an opt out from any "ever-further union of the EU".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...endum-35622105

So we had a great deal, access to the CM, our own currency, an opt-out from further political union, opt out from Schengen.
In other words we could have our cake and eat it.
But then we let the vast numbers of stupid people that exist in the UK (is there any other country apart from the US with such a large and useless underclass?) ruin it all.
The only way for progress to be made now is a real Brexit.
Then the younger generation will in the fullness fo time decide what they want to do.

[chopper]

Actually Cameron did get an opt out from any "ever-further union of the EU".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...endum-35622105

That part of the deal was meaningless

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

The actual TEU refers to an "ever closer union of the peoples of Europe". That is nothing to do with political union. I underlined the lower case u in union rather than Union. The phrase 'ever closer union' has no legal 'bite' in the EU treaties, and so exemption from it is entirely meaningless.

Each 'competency' which the EU assumes in place of the member state is supra national governmental scope creep, and meaningless exemption from ever closer union doesn't halt this.

[shaunbhoy]

So we had a great deal, access to the CM, our own currency, an opt-out from further political union, opt out from Schengen.
In other words we could have our cake and eat it.

I see you are still apoplectic about the fact that your nice cosy tax-reduced retirement to Portugal plan is hanging by a thread. What a tragedy!

Chin up...............you can always stay here with the rest of us and supplement your meagre diet with the produce from your allotment!

[d000hg]

What are you on about? I was talking about British people who fought in the war you oddball.

I don't think they comprise a big part of the vote.

[sasguru]

I see you are still apoplectic about the fact that your nice cosy tax-reduced retirement to Portugal plan is hanging by a thread. What a tragedy!

Chin up...............you can always stay here with the rest of us and supplement your meagre diet with the produce from your allotment!

It's not actually, since i have taken out dual nationality.
It's full steam ahead, have just bought a very nice Lisbon pad.
I'm really hoping for a real Brexit, for the all the laughs it'll provide - from the other side

[AtW]

It won’t take long for shauny to take up his Scottish citizenship and bugger off back to EU (Scotland) - Brexit makes breakup of the Union certainty, just a question of when, not if now - for that reason alone Brexiteers are traitors

[BR14]

It won’t take long for shauny to take up his Scottish citizenship and bugger off back to EU (Scotland) - Brexit makes breakup of the Union certainty, just a question of when, not if now - for that reason alone Brexiteers are traitors

and you can bugger off back home to your national service on the mongolian border