Left contract for a new one based on false promises. Help needed!

[Spikeh]

*****UPDATE*****

I've submitted an invoice to them, they have rebuffed it and stated that they won't pay.
I've gone back with proof of the days worked and stated that I'll take the case through legal channels if it's not paid.

They have responded that they will defend their position and if they win will seek damages against me.

I can't work out if they would do that or they are just trying to scare me?

Any tips?
Should I seek some employment law advice? Keep chipping away until they get sick of me? Try and negotiate some sort of reasonable settlement? Just drop it and move on?

Couple of questions:

1) Are you opted out?
2) Do you have any kind of insurance that might deal with this? Or free legal advice service with any of your insurances?
3) What does your contract say about time sheets / payment?

At the end of the day, it's 2 days work... doesn't feel nice, but sometimes its better to walk away and refuse to deal with the client or agency again.

[northernladuk]

Should I seek some employment law advice? Keep chipping away until they get sick of me? Try and negotiate some sort of reasonable settlement? Just drop it and move on?

Yeah go for that. That's gonna work..

[ChangePM]

Couple of questions:

1) Are you opted out?
2) Do you have any kind of insurance that might deal with this? Or free legal advice service with any of your insurances?
3) What does your contract say about time sheets / payment?

At the end of the day, it's 2 days work... doesn't feel nice, but sometimes its better to walk away and refuse to deal with the client or agency again.

1) Here's where it gets a bit messy. Yes, the contract states that I'm opted out. The back story here is that the agency wouldn't send me the log-in details to the timesheet portal until I had signed the contract. I signed the contract the day after leaving. Essentially they held me to ransom "sign the contract or you're not submitting a timesheet". *I have countless emails from the consultant basically saying that I should sign the contract so they can pay me.

2) I think so, I'm going to get in touch with the insurers this afternoon to test the water.

3) The contract says that they may withhold payment if they don't receive payment.
But, here's the thing. The agency are quoting and enforcing some of these clauses and subclauses of the contract, yet convieiently forgetting to enforce the contract terms regarding where the contract is based (i.e. the office in Manchester). They are almost picking and choosing which terms they want to play by to suit their agenda of not paying me.

Noted. I think its fairly safe to say that I won't be working with this agency or client again. In the grand scheme of things, it's 2.5 days - not the end of the world. It's more of a principle for me now, I left a contract and now find myself out of work. The fact that they aren't paying me for the time that I did work is just adding a bit of insult to injury.

[ChangePM]

Yeah go for that. That's gonna work..

In your expert opinion, what will work?

[Lance]

In your expert opinion, what will work?

Google dunning. That's the process for chasing payments.

[b0redom]

1) Here's where it gets a bit messy. Yes, the contract states that I'm opted out. The back story here is that the agency wouldn't send me the log-in details to the timesheet portal until I had signed the contract. I signed the contract the day after leaving. Essentially they held me to ransom "sign the contract or you're not submitting a timesheet". *I have countless emails from the consultant basically saying that I should sign the contract so they can pay me.

Am I reading this right? You started work without signing the contract first? If that's the case you're an idiot. There are multiple reasons why this is a really bad idea, not least that they have no legal obligation to pay you, your insurance may not be valid etc.

3) The contract says that they may withhold payment if they don't receive payment.
But, here's the thing. The agency are quoting and enforcing some of these clauses and subclauses of the contract, yet convieiently forgetting to enforce the contract terms regarding where the contract is based (i.e. the office in Manchester). They are almost picking and choosing which terms they want to play by to suit their agenda of not paying me.

This thread is useless without your full contract terms, but usually the location and rate are in a schedule associated with the contract. The schedule may say, home office is based in Manchester paying £x / day. If the client then decides they want you in London, you are, of course, within your rights to cancel (actually you can invoke your notice period for whatever reason).

This has absolutely nothing to do with them enforcing a clause saying if they don't get paid you don't get paid. You may be able to argue that you have not opted out, but this whole situation seems like a bit of a litany of errors and you'd be best of writing it off as a bad experience IMO.

Things to take away:

1) NEVER EVER under any circumstances start a gig without a signed contract
2) ALWAYS have your contract reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing - this is important as it will catch things like the 'if we don't get paid neither do you' stuff - but also for IR35 compliance.

[ChangePM]

Google dunning. That's the process for chasing payments.

I've googled dunning - that isn't getting me paid.
I've come to a bit of a stalemate having made numerous calls and sending countless emails (both friendly and forceful), they are refusing to pay me.

What is the next step?

[Spikeh]

IANAL - always seek legal advice before you act on anything I say here!

1) Here's where it gets a bit messy. Yes, the contract states that I'm opted out. The back story here is that the agency wouldn't send me the log-in details to the timesheet portal until I had signed the contract. I signed the contract the day after leaving. Essentially they held me to ransom "sign the contract or you're not submitting a timesheet". *I have countless emails from the consultant basically saying that I should sign the contract so they can pay me.

It is not legal for an agency to solely state that you are opted-out in the contract itself. It must be a separate declaration, and should be signed before "introduction or supply" - make of that whatever you will - everyone seems to interpret this differently.

2) I think so, I'm going to get in touch with the insurers this afternoon to test the water.

Definitely do this.

3) The contract says that they may withhold payment if they don't receive payment.
But, here's the thing. The agency are quoting and enforcing some of these clauses and subclauses of the contract, yet convieiently forgetting to enforce the contract terms regarding where the contract is based (i.e. the office in Manchester). They are almost picking and choosing which terms they want to play by to suit their agenda of not paying me.

If you are actually opted out, then they can legally withhold payment if you don't have a signed time sheet. If you are opted-in, you still have to prove that you've done the work (which is harder than it may seem), but there's more chance of you getting money out of them. In practice, this makes little difference.

Also sounds like there might be a breach of contract here - if your schedule states an address, then that's the understanding, and its where you should perform the work (personally, I always get this removed and replace it with "A location mutually agreed between the client and service provider" as I tend to push for remote work as soon as possible).

The agency will be in defence mode at the moment, so they'll be using all the tricks in the book to scare you. Keep calm and seek professional advice... or drop if you don't think 2.5 days is worth it (personally I don't, though if you're on £1k per day it's a slightly different matter!).

[ChangePM]

Am I reading this right? You started work without signing the contract first? If that's the case you're an idiot. There are multiple reasons why this is a really bad idea, not least that they have no legal obligation to pay you, your insurance may not be valid etc.


This thread is useless without your full contract terms, but usually the location and rate are in a schedule associated with the contract. The schedule may say, home office is based in Manchester paying £x / day. If the client then decides they want you in London, you are, of course, within your rights to cancel (actually you can invoke your notice period for whatever reason).

This has absolutely nothing to do with them enforcing a clause saying if they don't get paid you don't get paid. You may be able to argue that you have not opted out, but this whole situation seems like a bit of a litany of errors and you'd be best of writing it off as a bad experience IMO.

Things to take away:

1) NEVER EVER under any circumstances start a gig without a signed contract
2) ALWAYS have your contract reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing - this is important as it will catch things like the 'if we don't get paid neither do you' stuff - but also for IR35 compliance.

I can't disagree with anything that you have said, trust me, I've taken a lot away and learned plenty from this episode.

As for being an idiot for not signing it, by turning up on the first day I was bound by the terms anyway so it was just a formality that I was holding off signing. The reason I didn't want to sign was that I didn't want to be held in breach of contract for leaving.
The reason that I did sign eventually was the fact that they held me to ransom to allow me to submit a timesheet - I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't.
But you're spot on, I've been an idiot! I've just after a bit of help and advice in order to move on and put this behind me (hopefully having been paid for the time that I worked).

[ChangePM]

IANAL - always seek legal advice before you act on anything I say here!



It is not legal for an agency to solely state that you are opted-out in the contract itself. It must be a separate declaration, and should be signed before "introduction or supply" - make of that whatever you will - everyone seems to interpret this differently.


Definitely do this.


If you are actually opted out, then they can legally withhold payment if you don't have a signed time sheet. If you are opted-in, you still have to prove that you've done the work (which is harder than it may seem), but there's more chance of you getting money out of them. In practice, this makes little difference.

Also sounds like there might be a breach of contract here - if your schedule states an address, then that's the understanding, and its where you should perform the work (personally, I always get this removed and replace it with "A location mutually agreed between the client and service provider" as I tend to push for remote work as soon as possible).

The agency will be in defence mode at the moment, so they'll be using all the tricks in the book to scare you. Keep calm and seek professional advice... or drop if you don't think 2.5 days is worth it (personally I don't, though if you're on £1k per day it's a slightly different matter!).

Thanks Spikeh.

I genuinely appreciate your response. I'll keep it calm and relaxed and get some proper advice.
My head is now at the stage where I've written this off as a bad experience and taken a bit of a financial hit. If I do eventually get the money, it'll be a nice bonus but I'm not making any plans to spend it just yet. Thanks again.