Overtime through Hays

**NotAllThere** · 9 March 2018, 05:29

Let me the first to say that overtime is usually something that employees get. You're not an employee of Hays or your client.

However, I have in the past received additional payment for unsocial hours (but never overtime accrued during normal working hours like 7am to 7pm). This was through negotiation. When called while on holiday, I got paid a full day for an hour's work.

Give you're working over 60 hours a week, you'd be well advised to read Yourdon - Death March, especially the bit where any work done after around 60 hours has a negative affect on productivity. E.g. work 60 hours, you get 60 hours of productivity. Work 61 hours, and you get 59.75 hours of productivity.

**northernladuk** · 9 March 2018, 07:10

What does your contract say about it?

**SteelyDan** · 9 March 2018, 08:53

Originally posted by conteractingtherules View Post

I'm working my first contract through Hays for client.
Anyway I seem to be getting no premium on overtime, there's nothing in the contract that says anything about over time other then I'm contracted to work 40 hours a week.
I've worked on average 60+ hour weeks.

Why are you doing 60+ hrs/week when you state your contract is for 40 hrs/week? Seems like naivety, & a 'first-timer' foolish mistake which the client seems happy to take advantage of. You're effectively watering down your day rate, plus reducing the amount of time left in this contract. Buck up!

**northernladuk** · 9 March 2018, 09:09

Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post

Why are you doing 60+ hrs/week when you state your contract is for 40 hrs/week? Seems like naivety, & a 'first-timer' foolish mistake which the client seems happy to take advantage of. You're effectively watering down your day rate, plus reducing the amount of time left in this contract. Buck up!

I assumed he was on an hourly rate and he is being paid for them. He's only talking about and uplift to the extra hours. He doesn't mention not being paid for them. His only mistake is assuming he gets more for overtime like a permie without having to negotiate it and get it agreed in his contract.

**uk contractor** · 9 March 2018, 10:08

Be very careful here. I once talked myself out of a lengthy extension because the end client thought I was being difficult when I asked him to confirm the overtime rate. Client said nothing. Agency told me it was x1.5 daily rate but forgot on purpose to tell the end client as they knew he would not accept that.

I then refused to work overtime when asked UNLESS the rate was clarified which upset the end client even though I explained to them the agency had told me to not doing any overtime without their prior express permission. The client did pay me x1.5 & a little bit more on top as they were so happy with the work I delivered in the overtime I eventually did for them.

When this same client had a lengthy extension some time later on I was excluded as they perceived me as being difficult even though I was just being used by the agency as a pawn. So the agency lost out as the work went elsewhere & I lost out on probably a little over 6 figures in the salary I would have earned on the extension...all because the agency bottled telling the client & left me to fend for myself!

**northernladuk** · 9 March 2018, 10:30

Originally posted by uk contractor View Post

Be very careful here. I once talked myself out of a lengthy extension because the end client thought I was being difficult when I asked him to confirm the overtime rate. Client said nothing. Agency told me it was x1.5 daily rate but forgot on purpose to tell the end client as they knew he would not accept that.

I then refused to work overtime when asked UNLESS the rate was clarified which upset the end client even though I explained to them the agency had told me to not doing any overtime without their prior express permission. The client did pay me x1.5 & a little bit more on top as they were so happy with the work I delivered in the overtime I eventually did for them.

When this same client had a lengthy extension some time later on I was excluded as they perceived me as being difficult even though I was just being used by the agency as a pawn. So the agency lost out as the work went elsewhere & I lost out on probably a little over 6 figures in the salary I would have earned on the extension...all because the agency bottled telling the client & left me to fend for myself!

Salary??

<<mod snip: we're not in General here>>

**psychocandy** · 9 March 2018, 10:45

60 hours a week. Hmmm.

Couple of things:-

-I aint doing 60 hours a week on a regular basis anyway ever - I have a life.

- Are you getting paid the extra 20 even at flat rate? Or just the 40 and hoping you'll be paid the rest at a premium?
If its the 1st one you are mad. Chances are you will get bugger all extra. If you're dull enough to work extra without it getting sorted up front then client may well assume you're doing for free.

Premium for overtime. Very rare. If you're on hourly rate its the same 24/7 usually.

**Hobosapien** · 9 March 2018, 11:04

If there's no separate rate for outside the normal 40 hours/week detailed in the contract then best you can hope for is to get paid for the extra time at the standard rate.

The 40 hours in the contract is the standard time expected and is not rigid as it's down to what you agree with the client as to what time you spend delivering the work if you anticipate it to be much different to the 40 hours standard.

The starting point is to establish additional rates prior to accepting/starting the contract, or at renewal if you think there's a chance of getting it agreed. If you get it in writing in the contract then you can invoice the agent and it's up to them to ensure their contract with the client matches.

When the workload looks like it is going to deviate from the standard contracted hours then discuss the situation with the client to ensure they agree on an approach to either only timesheet full days worked (if working less than 40 hours/week) or timesheet the additional hours somehow (1.5 days, against sat/sun even though you didn't work the weekends, or whatever the timesheet process allows for over delivery). It's obviously a lot easier to handle if the rate is hourly rather than daily.

Getting the timesheets approved by the client is the main thing, then you can invoice for the approved timesheets.

Other thing to be wary of is contracts that mention 'professional working day' if on a daily rate, as the rate you accept may look good for the anticipated typical 40 hour week, but the client could easily take the piss by expecting you to work 60 hours for same rate.

**psychocandy** · 9 March 2018, 11:23

Agreed Hobo,

If you're on day rate and even if it says 40 hours then they may well not pay for any extra. Either way if your're on hourly rate and work 60 hours without mentioning it then you're risking not getting paid those exra hours.

Can't see many clients being pleased when they get hit with 80 extra hours to pay for after a month. They're going to assume you won't be billing for this.

Yes PWD can be a piss take. For me if it gets over 8 hours too often then we have a word.

Overtime through Hays