Advice needed on international project day rate

[jameslmorgan]

Thanks for further discussion. As you said, the client are just putting the responsibility onto me, as expected. I don’t really buy their explanation. They just want the right people for their project - but it’s a wishy washy rationale. I can’t imagine many border protection people buying it!

I now have to decide whether I’ll take the risk and if it’s worth it for this project. My hunch is that it’s not currently...

[BlasterBates]

Thanks for further discussion. As you said, the client are just putting the responsibility onto me, as expected. I don’t really buy their explanation. They just want the right people for their project - but it’s a wishy washy rationale. I can’t imagine many border protection people buying it!

I now have to decide whether I’ll take the risk and if it’s worth it for this project. My hunch is that it’s not currently...

When you apply for your ESTA why don't you enquire and phone someone up or write a message.

If they can't answer or give a straight answer then leave it

[jamesbrown]

Thanks for further discussion. As you said, the client are just putting the responsibility onto me, as expected. I don’t really buy their explanation. They just want the right people for their project - but it’s a wishy washy rationale. I can’t imagine many border protection people buying it!

I now have to decide whether I’ll take the risk and if it’s worth it for this project. My hunch is that it’s not currently...

Ask yourself this question: does the explanation from the client sound more like an analysis of the facts or a sales pitch? My hunch is that it didn't come from a relevant legal expert or even a legal expert, given the amount of information that is completely orthogonal to the criteria for the visa waiver (non-productive work or one of the limited exemptions).

Either way, good luck with your decision. Whatever you do decide, never lie to a USCIS official at the border, which includes trying to put a gloss on reality.

All the best, and please report back on what you decided and how it panned out.

[BlasterBates]

I would at least query what the qualification of the legal expert who gave the advice. Bear in mind that the client would also have legal consequences to deal with if they knowingly employed someone without the appropriate visa.

[sludgesurfer]

My hunch is that it’s not currently...

I would go with your hunch. I have been put in similar situations when I was staff. Being told to leave my hard hat and coveralls at home "in case I get my bag searched".... "just tell them you're going to meetings"..."the fixer will be waiting at the desk" etc.... Back then I was young and dumb. Now I wouldn't go near these borderline situations, staff or not.

I have a second passport and tell any client that they can keep it for as long as required to gain the necessary work permits. If the job is so urgent or they are not prepared to do so, then I'm not prepared to get on the plane.

As staff you have an in-house visa/legal department to make a call to if you are held or deported. As a contractor, you have an agency and an end client, both of whom will drop you like a wet fart when the time comes.

As others have said, the consequences of a deportation have significant personal and professional consequences. I am no expert and likely more risk averse than some, especially when it comes to north american entry but it seems like the nature of your work is borderline "meaningful". As such, its open to the interpretation of the official on the desk that day.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but personally I wouldn't risk it.

[Paralytic]

Why not phone the US Consulate in London and ask?

How to contact the visa unit at the U.S. Embassy in London

[jameslmorgan]

Sorry for delayed response have been travelling and now in different time zone - holiday not work!

Thanks for further thoughts.

1. Agree that it’s worth understanding the source of the supposed ‘legal’ response. It does sound more like a pitch - as I said the client is keen to use me again after success on a London project.

2. Also agree that the bottom line is my work would be productive and the client seems to be trying to gloss over that. Also even if the paperwork and contract reflects the ‘London based’ nature they suggested, the reality would be me in NYC for 10 days at a time with 2-4 days back in UK - for a duration of either 2 or 5 months. That and the productive work part that USCIS would care about right?

3. I will try sending a question to US consulate in London - but not sure if they will help or be quick enough.

4. Meantime, I will be going back to client to question their explanation of the ‘legal’ team perspective and say I’m not comfortable with it. I’ll say the following “The key issues for USCIS would be that I’d be doing productive work on a product not just meetings, working as a consultant/trainer and I’d be in and out of the US frequently. As I’m operating as a Limited company, rather than part of your company, it means all responsibility of dealing with USCIS falls on me. Given all of the research/advice I’ve had, unfortunately I’m not comfortable to do this project via ESTA.“

Any other thoughts?

[jamesbrown]

No, I think you have it covered. What matters at the port of entry is whether you are entering with the correct paperwork for your status. The frequency doesn’t matter (one violation is enough). The frequency only matters in the sense that you are much more likely to be have your story checked, in detail, after a few visits. The only other thing you can do is to speak to a US immigration lawyer to separate the wheat from the chaff w/r to what you’ve been told here (EDIT: i.e. an independent one, and firsthand, not via the client).

[jameslmorgan]

No, I think you have it covered. What matters at the port of entry is whether you are entering with the correct paperwork for your status. The frequency doesn’t matter (one violation is enough). The frequency only matters in the sense that you are much more likely to be have your story checked, in detail, after a few visits. The only other thing you can do is to speak to a US immigration lawyer to separate the wheat from the chaff w/r to what you’ve been told here (EDIT: i.e. an independent one, and firsthand, not via the client).

Yes see your point on frequency. Won’t have chance to contact an immigration lawyer. Suspect it would be costing too?

[jameslmorgan]

I contacted US embassy who just redirected me to Customs & Border protection. I’ve completed their online form and there’s a 10-15 lead time for a reply.