Considering leaving Full Time and start contracting Considering leaving Full Time and start contracting - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paralytic View Post
    Then have the call and see how it goes. If you can be guaranteed an EU gig for a few years at a £600+ rate + expenses, and that suits your lifestyle, it could be a great choice.

    When you refer to EU contracts, would the roles be based there, or would it be UK based - each have their own complexities - IR35, insurance, and, of course brexit (sorry).
    Yeah the IR35 piece worries me more than Brexit. Based on initial discussions, its still ongoing so yet can't be sure, the idea would be to travel to the client site 1-2 times a month, rest being remote work, for the EU opportunities. For the UK ones, I do not know if much travel would be involved.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    Usually contracts for my industry are 6 months to a year, with potential extensions, but rarely go after the lifetime of an implementation project, so max would see it at 2 years.
    so you've got a potential 2 years at that rate, or higher?.
    and can leverage expenses too?

    carpe diem, my boy.
    Entropy is NOT what it used to be.
    Inertia, however........................

  3. #23

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    You've probably already made up your mind, and ultimately it's your call, but I'll share my experience as similar position to you:

    • September 2018 - almost aged 32, left £60k perm job on my doorstep for contract in London on £450 p/d, primarily as wanted to move to a bigger house for my family. (Some mortgage providers are very generous when assessing contractor income).
    • May 2019 - first contract was a disaster. Really bored, no work to do, but a steady income and - bizarrely - got renewed. Took the decision to leave, got a new contract on £500 p/d. Moved house - more than 1.5x the value of previous house, despite my wife now giving up work due to benefits of contractor income.
    • Right at this exact moment, my gamble has paid off. We've got the house we'd set our hearts on, income is very good, contract is very busy and reasonable enjoyable, we've had an additional holiday we would not otherwise have had, and my wife is contractually obligated to do all the household chores.


    But
    What you haven't mentioned is - what are your current prospects? Do you enjoy you current job? Is promotion on the cards in the foreseeable? - a big factor in my decision was that I was fairly bored and had limited promotion prospects in my permanent role.

    Whatever you think you'll take home is likely to be higher than the real figure. You will also need to syphon off cash to fund reserves for when you are not working.

    You will have a new-found sense of guilt if you take holidays (you will want to avoid sick days at all costs) - you're losing income, and if you're saving for a house that pressure will increase.

    IR35 could destroy everything for the contract market. It might not, but it might. How would you cope? For me - my wife is pregnant so not able to go back to work immediately, the new house is a long way from London so the city would only be an option with flexible working practices if not on contract, and my warchest is not as good as it might otherwise have been due to taking extra dividends to help facilitate the move....

    Don't get me wrong - I have no regrets. It was a gamble which got us moved house and I was eager to leave my previous job. We've suffered/enjoyed massive lifestyle inflation, despite my best efforts, and I do miss the security and some of the perks of full time employment. I will almost certainly return to permanent employment once I've found the right role, but for a short term income boost contracting has done the job.

    Will what you're proposing help you buy a house quicker? Probably. Is it a massive risk and completely in appropriate timing? Definitely. Personally, I would definitely hold off until April and the true extent of IR35 ruling is known.
    Last edited by fiisch; 15th October 2019 at 12:40.

  4. #24

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    What expenses are you hoping are included from end client ?


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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiisch View Post
    You've probably already made up your mind, and ultimately it's your call, but I'll share my experience as similar position to you:

    • September 2018 - almost aged 32, left £60k perm job on my doorstep for contract in London on £450 p/d, primarily as wanted to move to a bigger house for my family. (Some mortgage providers are very generous when assessing contractor income).
    • May 2019 - first contract was a disaster. Really bored, no work to do, but a steady income and - bizarrely - got renewed. Took the decision to leave, got a new contract on £500 p/d. Moved house - more than 1.5x the value of previous house, despite my wife now giving up work due to benefits of contractor income.
    • Right at this exact moment, my gamble has paid off. We've got the house we'd set our hearts on, income is very good, contract is very busy and reasonable enjoyable, we've had an additional holiday we would not otherwise have had, and my wife is contractually obligated to do all the household chores.


    But
    What you haven't mentioned is - what are your current prospects? Do you enjoy you current job? Is promotion on the cards in the foreseeable? - a big factor in my decision was that I was fairly bored and had limited promotion prospects in my permanent role.

    Whatever you think you'll take home is likely to be higher than the real figure. You will also need to syphon off cash to fund reserves for when you are not working.

    You will have a new-found sense of guilt if you take holidays (you will want to avoid sick days at all costs) - you're losing income, and if you're saving for a house that pressure will increase.

    IR35 could destroy everything for the contract market. It might not, but it might. How would you cope? For me - my wife is pregnant so not able to go back to work immediately, the new house is a long way from London so the city would only be an option with flexible working practices if not on contract, and my warchest is not as good as it might otherwise have been due to taking extra dividends to help facilitate the move....

    Don't get me wrong - I have no regrets. It was a gamble which got us moved house and I was eager to leave my previous job. We've suffered/enjoyed massive lifestyle inflation, despite my best efforts, and I do miss the security and some of the perks of full time employment. I will almost certainly return to permanent employment once I've found the right role, but for a short term income boost contracting has done the job.

    Will what you're proposing help you buy a house quicker? Probably. Is it a massive risk and completely in appropriate timing? Definitely. Personally, I would definitely hold off until April and the true extent of IR35 ruling is known.
    Thanks for the great insight, really appreciate you sharing your story with the board and I'm glad you were able to have success.

    In my current job I am at quite a high level, next level would require at least another 2-3 years to pass, don't know how this timeline seems to you, but from past experience in previous jobs, this seems quite a lot of time for me. I enjoy the work that I do, the people I work with are amazing, and the company itself is similar to any heavyweight in the corporate world ( I'll let you know think what you want on this statement ) ).I am thinking of waiting as well just to see what happens with IR35 and who knows maybe I'll get promoted in the next couple of months ( very very very low chances, but gotta try and see the glass half full ).

    Later Edit : I enjoy my current job, but contracting would be in the same field, so would be doing the same work I am already doing. I am already independent at the work I perform.
    Last edited by CFC; 15th October 2019 at 20:47.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    What expenses are you hoping are included from end client ?


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    Depends on where the client is located.

    If the client is within the UK ( to be more specific in a driving/train radius of London, so no overnight stay ), I would be thinking at transport costs, or maybe not even that and just expense towards the LTD directly in this case.

    If the client is located further away ( e.g Scotland, or EU country ) costs such as hotel + transport. I am not sure about meals, as I would eat anyway and spend money on this, but transport and hotel ( accommodation to be more specific ), I would see as things that could be included on the invoice to be received straight from the client.
    Last edited by CFC; 15th October 2019 at 20:48.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    Depends on where the client is located.

    If the client is within the UK ( to be more specific in a driving/train radius of London, so no overnight stay ), I would be thinking at transport costs, or maybe not even that and just expense towards the LTD directly in this case.

    If the client is located further away ( e.g Scotland, or EU country ) costs such as hotel + transport. I am not sure about meals, as I would eat anyway and spend money on this, but transport and hotel ( accommodation to be more specific ), I would see as things that could be included on the invoice to be received straight from the client.
    What are you talking about? If you're having your bathroom renovated and your plumber at the end of the day comes to you and says "hey chief today I had 2 frapuccinos and a meal deal for lunch. Also I spent 5 quid on gas. That'll be 15 quid, thanks" what would you do?

    End clients will pay you for the service you agreed to provide, all the expenses you sustain do not concern them. You want to take a contract far from home? Not the client's problem. Your daily rate covers your daily expenses. If a contract far away from home means you have higher expenses, you increase your daily rate.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCTNN View Post
    What are you talking about? If you're having your bathroom renovated and your plumber at the end of the day comes to you and says "hey chief today I had 2 frapuccinos and a meal deal for lunch. Also I spent 5 quid on gas. That'll be 15 quid, thanks" what would you do?

    End clients will pay you for the service you agreed to provide, all the expenses you sustain do not concern them. You want to take a contract far from home? Not the client's problem. Your daily rate covers your daily expenses. If a contract far away from home means you have higher expenses, you increase your daily rate.
    So for abroad located clients, where travel is involved, the industry standard ( for the technology I work ) is daily rate + expenses.The idea is that you would not be travelling to the client site every day, so please explain to me how do you expect to include this in your daily rate when it may end up being only once a month travel ?

    Expenses include flights and hotel in general. Sometimes it can also include food. The previous project I worked on, coming from the consultancy, the client team was formed only out of contractors for the duration of the project. Some of them were from cities outside of the London area, and had hotels + transport + meals expenses, once every 2 weeks when they came on-site.

  9. #29

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    Then please stop wasting valuable time here, quit your job asap and go contracting now!!!

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFC View Post
    So for abroad located clients, where travel is involved, the industry standard ( for the technology I work ) is daily rate + expenses.The idea is that you would not be travelling to the client site every day, so please explain to me how do you expect to include this in your daily rate when it may end up being only once a month travel ?

    Expenses include flights and hotel in general. Sometimes it can also include food. The previous project I worked on, coming from the consultancy, the client team was formed only out of contractors for the duration of the project. Some of them were from cities outside of the London area, and had hotels + transport + meals expenses, once every 2 weeks when they came on-site.
    This is certainly the norm for consulting firms (eg, Professional Services), but less so for individual contractors. Of course, it could be your niche area is different, and great news for you if you can get clients to foot the bill for your room service
    Last edited by Paralytic; 16th October 2019 at 14:15.

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