umbrella or LTD

[SussexSeagull]

yes my client paid more money to offset tax
come next april ,all of you turning up your nose on inside ir35 roles will no longer have any other choice

I don't think people are turning their noses at them, more pointing out they are the worst of both worlds.

I would be better off going permanent than doing an inside IR35 contract staying away from home. That's not being pig headed, it's a financial decision.

[AnthonyQuinn]

Currently definitely outside IR35 as I have no current work.

Will take a permie job if offered.

Would take a fixed term PAYE role.

Would take an outside IR35 role.

Will never work as a no-rights employee inside IR35 - would rather sign on.

Thats nonsense. Unless you have large commuting costs your gross income is still normally 40% higher as a contractor. If its inside IR35 how is permanent better? permanent is like inside IR35 in terms of taxes. What rights do you have as an employee anyway? U can always be sacked before a period of two years.

[Andy2]

I don't think people are turning their noses at them, more pointing out they are the worst of both worlds.

I would be better off going permanent than doing an inside IR35 contract staying away from home. That's not being pig headed, it's a financial decision.

inside IR35 contract WFH or daily commutable > local permie job > Inside ir35 staying away from home

[elsergiovolador]

Thats nonsense. Unless you have large commuting costs your gross income is still normally 40% higher as a contractor. If its inside IR35 how is permanent better? permanent is like inside IR35 in terms of taxes. What rights do you have as an employee anyway? U can always be sacked before a period of two years.

Perm only makes sense if you want to "build a career" within a company, climb the ladder, dream of promotion and looking good at the review and stay more than two years.

Inside IR35 will look almost the same as outside, except they'll have few clauses to make sure CEST tool always gives inside result. The outcome is that your work will be taxed more than it used to and make sure to raise rates accordingly. It is a cost of peace of mind for the client and yourself that the frivolous taxman won't start biting.

All this talk that "inside IR35" is disguised employment is just bs for gullible MPs to push it through.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Thats nonsense. Unless you have large commuting costs your gross income is still normally 40% higher as a contractor. If its inside IR35 how is permanent better? permanent is like inside IR35 in terms of taxes. What rights do you have as an employee anyway? U can always be sacked before a period of two years.

How is it nonsense?
If I am going to be a"deemed employee" the client can make me an actual one, since they have accepted by the inside ruling that I am a deemed employee. An "inside IR35 contract" isn't even contracting - it's employment with the meagre rights taken out.

Obviously I don't know what your specialist contracting skills are, but gross income in the contracts I've seen for what I do is nowhere like 40% more than permie salaries.

As for employee rights - they need to pay into my pension from day one, and pay for sick days and holidays - it's not just about the unfair dismissal stuff that applies from two years. If clients are prepared to make the effort and engage properly outside IR35 that is fine - otherwise it is employment as an employee.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

and make sure to raise rates accordingly.

Maybe you have some magically rare skillset - I don't - no clients, not one were offering a penny more on rates to work inside in the run up to the original revision of IR35 in Jan/Feb/Mar - in fact most were demanding a rate cut so they could use the difference to pay their employers NI and apprentice levy.

[perplexed]

Probably in a different situation to most in that I don't stay away from home - child with special needs, wife with long term illness - but my approach these days is a priority based list.

1) Outside IR35 via limited
2) If no outside IR35, then make company dormant and lookk for Inside Ir35 gigs via umbrella

[elsergiovolador]

Maybe you have some magically rare skillset - I don't - no clients, not one were offering a penny more on rates to work inside in the run up to the original revision of IR35 in Jan/Feb/Mar - in fact most were demanding a rate cut so they could use the difference to pay their employers NI and apprentice levy.

Ok if the client thought they could pay less for your skills, why they didn't replace you earlier? It looks like they may know you have no alternative and so they can drag the rate down. It's a question how quickly they could find a replacement and how much time would get that company to get up to speed?

[Old Greg]

I suppose a client could theoretically pay enough to offset the impact - but it wouldn't make any financial sense for them as they'd be paying way more than the total cost of a fixed term PAYE employee.

At a very senior level, Interim roles (e.g Interim CIO) can make sense financially compared to permie equivalent, and are likely to be inside IR35. Not my bag, though.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Ok if the client thought they could pay less for your skills, why they didn't replace you earlier?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The IR35 changes meant clients (not just the one I was at but many others) decided that the easiest way to operate was by assuming everyone was inside IR35 - and their interpretation of this was either a PSC ban or declaring all contracts inside and offering them on that basis with no increases.

Are you an actual contractor or do you just hang around here distributing "wisdom"?