PCG and QDOS IR35 coverage

[nomadd]

Kick what? It's your money (and a small percentage of your contract value over a year...) and PCG membership is about a hell of a lot more than insurance, as I'm sure you agree.

But all I keep saying is that it's not a case of PCG or QDOS, it's a case of PCG anyway, and QDOS/Abbey/Accountax/whoever if you really think you need two pairs of braces and a couple of extra belts to keep up a pair of elasticated trousers. I don't, but I'm not you.

If your contract is sound, and either you know enough to assess that yourself or you get it reviewed by someone who does, you aren't going to lose an IR35 case. If it isn't, the only sensible choice is to pay up or go brolly; only a fool would do anything else.

The other point to ponder is that nobody's yet claimed on the penalties insurance. You can be damned sure that if HMG succeed in a few IR35 cases and they are paid off with an insurance policy, that insurance option will very quickly be removed. HMG will not tolerate people insuring against what they see as criminal activity (and IR35 is a law after all). They may even take the view that paying out £1000 to ignore a £50k tax bill is evasion.

But first they have to win.

+1

[psychocandy]

Minor point, but there's no VAT on insurance premiums. Just insurance premium tax at 6%, but that's included in the £360.

ah ok. thanks.

[psychocandy]

Kick what? It's your money (and a small percentage of your contract value over a year...) and PCG membership is about a hell of a lot more than insurance, as I'm sure you agree.

But all I keep saying is that it's not a case of PCG or QDOS, it's a case of PCG anyway, and QDOS/Abbey/Accountax/whoever if you really think you need two pairs of braces and a couple of extra belts to keep up a pair of elasticated trousers. I don't, but I'm not you.

If your contract is sound, and either you know enough to assess that yourself or you get it reviewed by someone who does, you aren't going to lose an IR35 case. If it isn't, the only sensible choice is to pay up or go brolly; only a fool would do anything else.

The other point to ponder is that nobody's yet claimed on the penalties insurance. You can be damned sure that if HMG succeed in a few IR35 cases and they are paid off with an insurance policy, that insurance option will very quickly be removed. HMG will not tolerate people insuring against what they see as criminal activity (and IR35 is a law after all). They may even take the view that paying out £1000 to ignore a £50k tax bill is evasion.

But first they have to win.

You have a very good point. I know both QDOS and PCG have lost a very small percentage of cases but I wasnt aware of that any of these cases were covered by their respective insurance (and thus this paid the charges rather than the person in question).

So even though QDOS and Abbey Tax have lost a few cases the ones they lost didnt have the full coverage?

I know the argument about insuring for breaking the law has also been discussed. Interesting argument that HMRC might be miffed that contractor doesnt care that he loses since hes covered anyway.

[Goggy]

QDOS Freelancer Tax Protection or PCGPlus?

QDOS Freelancer Tax Protection or PCGPlus - What's the difference between the two?

I've got my insurances from QDOS and also have got PCG membership.
Now considering to buy a cover for the investigations .
Comparing the two of the above and I can see that QDOS offers contract reviews for the duration of the cover all the rest is the same, isn't? (PCG of course has much more to offer in general)

QDOS (£117 + VAT) :

An IR35 Contract Assessment included
Legal and representation (£50k) in the event of:
An IR35 dispute
A PAYE/NIC dispute
A VAT dispute
A HM Revenue & Customs aspect enquiry
A HM Revenue & Customs full enquiry
A Section 660A dispute
Backdated tax years fully covered

PCGPlus(£220+VAT):

Income Tax Full Enquiry (All books & records requested by HMRC)
Income Tax Aspect Enquiry (HMRC just interested in specific entries on the tax return)
Corporation Tax Full Enquiry (as income tax above, but into your company’s return)
Corporation Tax Aspect Enquiry (into specific entries on the company’s return)
VAT Disputes
Employer Compliance (PAYE/P11D/NIC) Disputes
IR35 Disputes

[malvolio]

QDOS Freelancer Tax Protection or PCGPlus - What's the difference between the two?

I've got my insurances from QDOS and also have got PCG membership.
Now considering to buy a cover for the investigations .
Comparing the two of the above and I can see that QDOS offers contract reviews for the duration of the cover all the rest is the same, isn't? (PCG of course has much more to offer in general)

QDOS (£117 + VAT) :

An IR35 Contract Assessment included
Legal and representation (£50k) in the event of:
An IR35 dispute
A PAYE/NIC dispute
A VAT dispute
A HM Revenue & Customs aspect enquiry
A HM Revenue & Customs full enquiry
A Section 660A dispute
Backdated tax years fully covered

PCGPlus(£220+VAT):

Income Tax Full Enquiry (All books & records requested by HMRC)
Income Tax Aspect Enquiry (HMRC just interested in specific entries on the tax return)
Corporation Tax Full Enquiry (as income tax above, but into your company’s return)
Corporation Tax Aspect Enquiry (into specific entries on the company’s return)
VAT Disputes
Employer Compliance (PAYE/P11D/NIC) Disputes
IR35 Disputes

PCG Plus cover is a lot more than that, and is evolving. It's not all about tax, after all.

But you're looking at a few hundred quid to secure £10ks a year.

[Batcher]

Coming to this thread late:

I was a PCG member and had QDOS IR35 insurance when my HMRC investigation began. Due to the QDOS insurance being all about IR35 investigation, I notified them first.

After around 18 months the QDOS person dealing with my case moved and I had to go over everything with the new person, including sending them documentation that they should already have had.

Eventually HMRC said I was caught and should send them £52k. They even provided handy payment books. I discussed with QDOS and they said the next step was to take it to the commissioners but the insurance wouldn't cover the £7k cost so I would need to pay it myself if I wanted to challenge.

At this point I contacted PCG for advice. As I had already used QDOS they couldn't take on the case but if I faxed them the details and HMRC's letters they would give me advice. They picked HMRC's case to pieces and told me what I should tell QDOS to tell HMRC.

After around 6 months of silence QDOS wrote to HMRC and said as they hadn't responded we would treat the case as being dropped. HMRC wrote back and basically said (I paraphrase) "we know you are guilty but in this instance we will take no further action".

I'm a PCG+ member and it's money well spent. I'm sure HMRC drop a lot of cases as soon as they get the initial response saying PCG are representing you.

[Goggy]

Thanks a lot! Your reply is very much appreciated!

[TheFaQQer]

Qdos TLC35, whilst more expensive, pays the penalties and tax if you lose. For the cost of a day rate, I see that as a no-brainer.

[adam42]

Coming to this thread late:

I was a PCG member and had QDOS IR35 insurance when my HMRC investigation began. Due to the QDOS insurance being all about IR35 investigation, I notified them first.

After around 18 months the QDOS person dealing with my case moved and I had to go over everything with the new person, including sending them documentation that they should already have had.

Eventually HMRC said I was caught and should send them £52k. They even provided handy payment books. I discussed with QDOS and they said the next step was to take it to the commissioners but the insurance wouldn't cover the £7k cost so I would need to pay it myself if I wanted to challenge.

At this point I contacted PCG for advice. As I had already used QDOS they couldn't take on the case but if I faxed them the details and HMRC's letters they would give me advice. They picked HMRC's case to pieces and told me what I should tell QDOS to tell HMRC.

After around 6 months of silence QDOS wrote to HMRC and said as they hadn't responded we would treat the case as being dropped. HMRC wrote back and basically said (I paraphrase) "we know you are guilty but in this instance we will take no further action".

I'm a PCG+ member and it's money well spent. I'm sure HMRC drop a lot of cases as soon as they get the initial response saying PCG are representing you.

OK so what you are saying is that now you will just stick with the PCG? Or do exactly the same thing again (PCG and Qdos) in the light of what Faqqer says if Qdos then pick up the £50K?

Qdos TLC35, whilst more expensive, pays the penalties and tax if you lose. For the cost of a day rate, I see that as a no-brainer.

That is exactly what you need really, but if Qdos can't win against the HMRC without the help of the PCG (as Batcher says), wouldn't you still be better off with both?

[jmo21]

Does PCG Plus cover previous years before membership? not clear from website.

Thinking of switching over from QDOS. Their freelancer tax protection does cover past years if you are coming in as a new customer