Personal services company? need help...

[gaumzi]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I know about IR35 and have also read few pages on personal services company but was a bit confused. I will now go through all the links you guys have mentioned and dig a bit more.

Again, thanks very much.

[GB9]

Every time I hear the PSC phrase it reminds me how morally reprehensible I am.

[fraymond]

If I opt in of AWR, does that mean the agency has to honour contract notice periods even if the client doesn't? And if so, does that weaken my IR35 status if being outside. Always wondered if one affects the other...

[northernladuk]

If I opt in of AWR, does that mean the agency has to honour contract notice periods even if the client doesn't? And if so, does that weaken my IR35 status if being outside. Always wondered if one affects the other...

there is no opt out for awr

If you are outside IR35 then you are a business so AWR does not apply.

Notice periods are for permies. You could have a 6 year notice period. If you don't have work to do you don't get paid. You just get no money for the 6 years of your notice.... get my drift?

[mudskipper]

"The company is operating in business through an independent company providing professional business services"

Through? This sounds like a third party is involved? Confusing question - I'd confirm what they mean by it.

[SueEllen]

Notice periods are for permies. You could have a 6 year notice period. If you don't have work to do you don't get paid. You just get no money for the 6 years of your notice.... get my drift?

Not true we have argued about this before.

There is a subtle legal difference.

If there is a notice period in the contract and:
Scenario one -
The client has no work for you to do, wants to cut the contract short and maintain a good business relationship so they can use your services in the future/care about their reputation/whatever tree hugging reason they have then they will service notice on you as per the contract clause and pay the notice.

Scenario two-
The client has no work for you to do, doesn't particularly care about the business relationship especially as you have pissed them off then the client will let the contract run to it's natural termination date. In this case you won't be paid for any work as you haven't done any and more importantly notice hasn't been served on you.

The difference is they have triggered a contract clause in the first scenario but in the second they deliberately haven't.

[northernladuk]

Not true we have argued about this before.

There is a subtle legal difference.

If there is a notice period in the contract and:
Scenario one -
The client has no work for you to do, wants to cut the contract short and maintain a good business relationship so they can use your services in the future/care about their reputation/whatever tree hugging reason they have then they will service notice on you as per the contract clause and pay the notice.

Now add a huge dose of reality to this and we might be getting somewhere.... I would search for a thread where someone got paid notice without working it.... but there aren't any. I could search for threads discussing the IR35 implications of getting paid notice for not doing it, of which there are many more.

Scenario two-
The client has no work for you to do, doesn't particularly care about the business relationship especially as you have pissed them off then the client will let the contract run to it's natural termination date. In this case you won't be paid for any work as you haven't done any and more importantly notice hasn't been served on you.

The difference is they have triggered a contract clause in the first scenario but in the second they deliberately haven't.

So what? Outcome is the same, you don't get paid... so the notice is irrelevant. They just wait till the contact lapses instead. Same outcome as I pointed out.

[SueEllen]

Now add a huge dose of reality to this and we might be getting somewhere.... I would search for a thread where someone got paid notice without working it.... but there aren't any. I could search for threads discussing the IR35 implications of getting paid notice for not doing it, of which there are many more.

I don't need to search for a thread since I got paid notice and there are no IR35 implications as I got the contract checked out before hand. I should point out the notice was only a few days on their side but 4 weeks on my side.

When one of my clients wanted to get rid of a contractor they were told the notice period would be triggered and they had to pay it unless they found a clause in the contract he breached to get rid of him. A way was found to get rid of him under breach of contract and the same reason was then used not to pay him. Again there was an unequal notice period plus due to this guy the contractors on the project had to keep going home as there was no work to do, whilst the permies on the project were found other stuff to do.

As I said the majority of clients if they put in a notice clause they put a long one in i.e. a month and then find away to get round it.

[fraymond]

fyi. I've been paid a notice period on a contract, project finished early and they wanted the team off premises. So that was 3 weeks full pay upon them serving notice on the contract.

Even a 6 week, fixed term contract I worked (how could that be deemed "employment"?) had a notice period in the contract as per the client specification. Why then, are notice periods for permies?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

fyi. I've been paid a notice period on a contract, project finished early and they wanted the team off premises. So that was 3 weeks full pay upon them serving notice on the contract.

Even a 6 week, fixed term contract I worked (how could that be deemed "employment"?) had a notice period in the contract as per the client specification. Why then, are notice periods for permies?

Why couldn't a six week contract be deemed employment?