Originally posted by Podgy
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Client and Agent serve notice but don't pay me - where do I stand legally
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Originally posted by Podgy View PostWhy do you all keep contradicting yourself on this matter!
One minute stating its a business and the next about no pay for no work by the individual.
It is based on the business CONTRACT - if the contract has a notice period then it should be paid - unless it states specifically that it is reliant on work being available, timesheets being signed blah blah blah and agreed - and equal to both parties.
There are many business contracts in construction that do end up paying contractors / workmen whilst they cant work as either the site / materials are not ready - what do you think they do send them home & dont pay them everytime there is a lapse in the project.
If the notice period excludes payment then the notice period is worthless as the contract can be ended at a moments notice just by saying we have no work, dont come back, but take 4 weeks unpaid notice - it makes absolutely no sense and is totally open to abuse. It would also be totally unfair.
The regulations are clear. Why are so many of you confused?
EDIT : Another thought on this.. If clients start having issues paying contractors notice when it's given even when there is no work surely they will just not provide work and let the contract expire. That is going to cause us problems being stuck in contracts and unable to go find more work until it lapses. Surely it would be better to have the option to get canned as soon as the work finishes, no notice period, so we are then free to get extra work. There is a fairly good assumption that most clients will have planned the end of the work properly and the contractor will have had a heads up about it rather than just polling up one day and getting canned there and then.Last edited by northernladuk; 27 June 2013, 16:21.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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If the client take on a contractor and have not scheduled the volume or timing of the work/project correctly thats their problem.
If they want me to agree to sit at home unpaid whenever due to their lack of planning they can put it in the contract (prior to interview as per the regulations!) and I'll tell them where to shove it.
I take it a lot of you would just meekly signComment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostEvery contract I have states that payment will only be made with a signed timesheet. It would be pretty stupid not to have that in and I believe is considered the defacto standard.... so no work, no time sheet, no pay... as we have already stated.
If not - its got nothing to do with it.
And if you really are so fixated on the timesheet - just send it in for the signature?Comment
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Originally posted by Podgy View PostWhy do you all keep contradicting yourself on this matter!
One minute stating its a business and the next about no pay for no work by the individual.
It is based on the business CONTRACT - if the contract has a notice period then it should be paid - unless it states specifically that it is reliant on work being available, timesheets being signed blah blah blah and agreed - and equal to both parties.
Originally posted by Podgy View PostThere are many business contracts in construction that do end up paying contractors / workmen whilst they cant work as either the site / materials are not ready - what do you think they do send them home & dont pay them everytime there is a lapse in the project.
Originally posted by Podgy View PostIf the notice period excludes payment then the notice period is worthless as the contract can be ended at a moments notice just by saying we have no work, dont come back,
Originally posted by Podgy View Postbut take 4 weeks unpaid notice - it makes absolutely no sense and is totally open to abuse. It would also be totally unfair.
Originally posted by Podgy View PostThe regulations are clear. Why are so many of you confused?
We've been through this a number of times in your previous incarnations here - KittyCat, Tiddles etc. - before they were banned.
Most people believe that if you don't work, you don't get paid. You think differently, and claim to have taken an agency to court, and they backed down at the last minute giving you tens of thousands of pounds.
I don't for one second believe a word that you say.Comment
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Originally posted by Podgy View PostBut does it state it relating to the notice period?
If not - its got nothing to do with it.
And if you really are so fixated on the timesheet - just send it in for the signature?
The problem is, as I stated in another thread, we do not do enough diligence on our notice periods so to be honest this argument is all our own fault. The standard contracts mention notice periods but absolutely nothing about being paid them. They are worked as normal (or not if the case need be). That is the problem. If you want to stipulate notice period is paid regardless you MUST put that in so no argument. Same with the clause about getting binned if no work. The standard notice period is so badly written that it causes this type of debate. We see different things in it.
Saying that to me it's pretty clear. I get paid if I have done work and had a timesheet paid. In contract or in notice period. Simple. But if you think notice periods mean something different you must get it clear in your contract to remove ambiguity.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by TheFaQQer View PostSo you're saying that you get paid according to the contract? Every one I've seen says "no timesheet, no work, no payment" or words to that effect.
I don't think many people here work in construction, or have a contract which says that they get paid for not working.
Yes, you're right.
Whoever told you life is fair?
I don't think many people are confused, to be honest. Most understand exactly what their contract says, and understand whether they are entitled to payment or not. If the contract says that you are entitled to payment, then you should be paid; if it doesn't, then you shouldn't.
We've been through this a number of times in your previous incarnations here - KittyCat, Tiddles etc. - before they were banned.
Most people believe that if you don't work, you don't get paid. You think differently, and claim to have taken an agency to court, and they backed down at the last minute giving you tens of thousands of pounds.
I don't for one second believe a word that you say.Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostBut what will be in on the timesheet? Zero hours, which = zero pay. Jesus....
The problem is, as I stated in another thread, we do not do enough diligence on our notice periods so to be honest this argument is all our own fault. The standard contracts mention notice periods but absolutely nothing about being paid them. They are worked as normal (or not if the case need be). That is the problem. If you want to stipulate notice period is paid regardless you MUST put that in so no argument. Same with the clause about getting binned if no work. The standard notice period is so badly written that it causes this type of debate. We see different things in it.
Saying that to me it's pretty clear. I get paid if I have done work and had a timesheet paid. In contract or in notice period. Simple. But if you think notice periods mean something different you must get it clear in your contract to remove ambiguity.
mmmm let me see;
Notice Period:
Agency: 4 weeks with no pay if no work, 4 weeks with pay if enough work (up to us really).
Ltd Co: 4 weeks (or we'll withold your payment/sue you).
The whole point of it is so that both parties can plan for the end of the contract & that its fair on both sides.Comment
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Originally posted by Podgy View PostAhh you see thats where we differ - to me it is clear - as notice without pay is meaningless and would be unfair in contract terms.
You not think it is odd that not one person appears to agree with you?
If you want it to be fair then you negotiate that in to your contract.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostYou not think it is odd that not one person appears to agree with you?Comment
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