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  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    don't read all of it then post rubbish



    you will find again and again the skill shortage that drives the demands for immigrant workers is the ability to work for much less money.
    There is in fact now a legal minimum wage you know.
    It doesn't seem to have helped the situation with regard to recruiting native workers.
    The problem is that for the last few decades at least, for whatever reason, farmers have needed to recruit foreigners.
    In the 50s it was Irish travellers.
    Perhaps natives will work at wages that would then bankrupt the farmers, whose margins are generally low.
    So there is a problem, regardless of your attempts to say otherwise.

    Actually it seems to me this is a problem of the success of the British economy: natives don't have to do low paid work because they have access to much better work. At the moment the unemployment rate is just over 5%, which is really full employment.
    Immigrants are coming here BECAUSE the economy is good, you'll really need to worry when they DON'T want to come.
    Long may it continue.
    Last edited by Euler; 9th April 2015 at 10:22.

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euler View Post
    There is in fact now a legal minimum wage you know.
    It doesn't seem to have helped the situation with regard to recruiting native workers.
    The problem is that for the last few decades at least, for whatever reason, farmers have needed to recruit foreigners.
    In the 50s it was Irish travellers.
    Perhaps natives will work at wages that would then bankrupt the farmers, whose margins are generally low.
    So there is a problem, regardless of your attempts to say otherwise.

    Actually it seems to me this is a problem of the success of the British economy: natives don't have to do low paid work because they have access to much better work. At the moment the unemployment rate is just over 5%, which is really full employment.
    Immigrants are coming here BECAUSE the economy is good, you'll really need to worry when they DON'T want to come.
    Long may it continue.
    you set yourself up as an expert in statistics and have been repeatedly proven wrong. I suggest you move to something you are competent at say road sweeping.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  3. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    you set yourself up as an expert in statistics and have been repeatedly proven wrong. I suggest you move to something you are competent at say road sweeping.
    Which proof would that be?
    Whereas you are a cretin who spends all your time on here talking saloon bar "philosophy" because you can't do anything useful in the real world.

    HTH, BIDI

  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euler View Post
    Which proof would that be?
    I'm a cretin who spends all my time on here talking wine bar "philosophy" and posting half read links because I can't do anything useful in the real world.

    HTH, BIDI
    FTFY
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  5. #135

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    Does this all show that statistics show what the viewer wants to see, not what is actually happening?

    And this is not a comment in favour or against migration, just the stupid too and fro arguments on here!
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  6. #136

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    Farage might have had a good argument to make about health tourism, but his words in the debate were poorly chosen and just came over as cruel. If you talk about kicking out the dying, not many people are going to agree and it brings up a horrible picture.

    On the other hand, I was appalled at the Welsh lady (lovely as she was) who chose to shut down the discussion with the "shame" card, rather than address the issues. Pure PC in action.

  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coalman View Post
    Does this all show that statistics show what the viewer wants to see, not what is actually happening?

    And this is not a comment in favour or against migration, just the stupid too and fro arguments on here!
    well formed statistics show the truth. The problem is that some people (and I'm guilty of this some times as well) take all statistics as gospel when in fact unless you understand the underlining reasons they tend to mislead.

    e.g.
    high number of immigrants work in the NHS = the belief NHS needs immigrants NOT that we spent years under investing in training and stole foreign trained staff.

    More immigrants have lowly paid jobs jobs = the belief that Immigrants are more willing to work NOT uk citizens get paid more on benefits and would lose out if they worked.

    more immigrants have lowly paid jobs jobs = they make a positive contribution to GDP NOT that they displace local workers and force wages down because they are willing to work for less than benefits to support a nomadic life for a few years so they can return to their home country relatively rich.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  8. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman View Post
    Farage might have had a good argument to make about health tourism, but his words in the debate were poorly chosen and just came over as cruel. If you talk about kicking out the dying, not many people are going to agree and it brings up a horrible picture.

    On the other hand, I was appalled at the Welsh lady (lovely as she was) who chose to shut down the discussion with the "shame" card, rather than address the issues. Pure PC in action.
    unfortunately the debate is repeatedly stifled by suggesting any objectors are either racist or callous.

    Free healthcare is a strong pull factor.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  9. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    e.g.
    high number of immigrants work in the NHS = the belief NHS needs immigrants NOT that we spent years under investing in training and stole foreign trained staff.
    .
    There's plenty of training around if you get off your arse and look for it. But saloon-bar philosophers like yourself, rather than fix your lack of education, would rather waste time pontificating and talking bollux on forums, blaming other people for your own failings.
    You're representative of many.
    You can't polish a turd - it takes character, determination and hard work to become accomplised at something, not that you'd know

  10. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman View Post
    Farage might have had a good argument to make about health tourism, but his words in the debate were poorly chosen and just came over as cruel. If you talk about kicking out the dying, not many people are going to agree and it brings up a horrible picture.

    On the other hand, I was appalled at the Welsh lady (lovely as she was) who chose to shut down the discussion with the "shame" card, rather than address the issues. Pure PC in action.
    Tend to agree.

    Farage is right of course but it was bad politics. The opportunity was there to sell a positive vision of an independent Britain instead we got Nasty Nige being nasty about immigrants again.

    I think the fault lies with his main advisor Patrick O'Flynn. Ex-editor of the Daily Express. Cheapo right wing tabloid politics.

    Oh dear.

    Sack him Nige!

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