Here we go again ...

[Lola C]

All this has got nothing to do with immigration or Indians in particular. There is no point starting to create hatred against the foreigners.
Its all to do with what businesses are, and what they do.
The main goal of a business is to increase its profits, and they will employ whatever it takes to get there - including hiring cheap labour.

This is what exactly you and I will be doing too - if you are a proper business, and not some "disguised employee" type contractor (in which case I understand why these kinds of people generally don't see the point of why businesses do this).

If the local labour force was cheaper - for example, these same businesses will hire only local / British labour, not Indians.
If the local labour had the accent and social skills necessary to do a particular job, then the businesses will hire local force/British force only, not Indians.

So I think the whole idea of creating some thread to bash foreigners in general is no good for us Brits, and it does not solve anything for us.
We need a solution, and for that - we need businesses to take on some social responsibilities too - i.e. hiring (and training them as well if need be) the local British workers, rather than simply only aiming for increasing their bottom line.

So, I think the problem lies with the local British Businesses - who are going for the Indians, not the other way around.

Where did you see "hatred towards foreigners"? Does discussing immigration and its loopholes make you think that? It's not a secret for anyone that ICT is used as an immigration loophole. And why do you think every country has visas and work permits?

When it comes to "maximizing the profit", why not get rid of all those "expensive" people, managers including and replace them with foreign workers? Where would the line go? Why only allow IT people to come here on ICT? I can open a service company in some Third World country and supply the UK market with any worker, skilled or unskilled, and it would certainly be much cheaper for me. How about this scenario?

In my former permie jobs in London I have seen plenty of working visa people occupying the roles that a LOT of British people would do, and for the same money. So why did the company hire the person from outside of the Uk is a mystery for me. Seems like they dont care about their own country at all, and only see short-term wins. The criteria for bringing people to the UK on working visas should be tightened. Otherwise, EVERYONE can be replaced with a cheaper worker.

[Lola C]

It's the only way we will get any govt to step in, is to show an overall drop in tax take with ICT/work permit approach.

The rates are low, the profit from the worker end up in India, so there's almost no tax take there. Any cost saving for the client (if overall, there is any) will be not passed on the HMR&C through corp tax due to clever accounting and corp tax havens.

Forgetting the UK employment and worker protection, British jobs for British people angle, ICT/Work permit workers cost the UK economy big time...

This and also why doesnt anyone think about the collateral damage? Overstretched health services, housing shortage, unemployment benefits payment increase?

[Lola C]

I seriously hope the Indian dudes do take a look at threads like this, and realise what kind of country this is, and what the locals are talking about them - including all the generalisations going on here about ALL Indians evading tax, their corrupt cultureal thinking, and committing all sorts of crime, etc. and think for themselves for one moment as to whether they really want to come over here to Britain, and work and live amongst us? No offense intended, but I would stay away if I was in such a position thinking about it.

Given these general perceptions about Indians on the whole, there is no respect left out.
Do you guys (Indians) really really want to immigrate here for work and living?

Tell your offshore nuts (companies) that you don't want to come here. Possibly go to USA.
That will reduce the immigration to UK, thanks to your efforts, not this government's or British companies (for their lack of effort to reduce the immigration).

I think the only way to help reduce immigration is for the Indians to think about it and offer help.

Mind you, I know a lot of Asian people who refuse to work the companies run by Asian people because of .... corrupt working culture and cast thinking of the latter that they dont wanna be a part of anymore.

[NotAllThere]

...its arrogant to assume only you are good enough.

Said a man with delusions of adequacy.

[stek]

This and also why doesnt anyone think about the collateral damage? Overstretched health services, housing shortage, unemployment benefits payment increase?

Is this Coolcat's sockie?

[vetran]

Said a man with delusions of adequacy.

nope I know I'm punching above my weight, but strangely they keep paying me quite well after a decade and giving me better projects.

[Lola C]

Aye, it's a race to the, er, bottom.

As it were.

The only winners are the 1%ers who'll be the first against the wall (after the executives of The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation, of course) when the inevitable revolution comes.

But it's true....

Take for example supermarket workers. How much do they get per hour, around 7 pounds? I can provide you with cheap staff that will work for half of it! I will have to ICT them though but that shouldn't be a problem in the UK.
What is not to like? You groceries would become cheaper (or so I promise, in fact the management will pocket the difference, but noone will find out anyway)....

Unfortunately, the nature of the most Brits (according to my experience) is to accept the bad things and not protest too much. That is why the system is what it is. There will be no revolution with this attitude, I am afraid.

[fullyautomatix]

But it's true....

Take for example supermarket workers. How much do they get per hour, around 7 pounds? I can provide you with cheap staff that will work for half of it! I will have to ICT them though but that shouldn't be a problem in the UK.
What is not to like? You groceries would become cheaper (or so I promise, in fact the management will pocket the difference, but noone will find out anyway)....

Unfortunately, the nature of the most Brits (according to my experience) is to accept the bad things and not protest too much. That is why the system is what it is. There will be no revolution with this attitude, I am afraid.

I think ever since outsourcing became a big thing, since the late 90s, the one thing that has happened is that the price of goods has gone up, a lot of IT and call centers and related activities are outsourced for a fraction of the cost and the money saved has been gobbled up by the management in the form of generous bonus etc. Consumers have not seen any saving, employees have lost their jobs and the only people who benefited are the management honchos who made enormous short term gains.

[DimPrawn]

I think ever since outsourcing became a big thing, since the late 90s, the one thing that has happened is that the price of goods has gone up, a lot of IT and call centers and related activities are outsourced for a fraction of the cost and the money saved has been gobbled up by the management in the form of generous bonus etc. Consumers have not seen any saving, employees have lost their jobs and the only people who benefited are the management honchos who made enormous short term gains.

^ This.

The lies of "globalisation and everyone working for nothing benefits us all with ultra cheap prices" is clearly utter bollox.

It benefits a few ultra wealthy people living like gods in sunny tax havens.