Is there a point at which vigilantism becomes justified? Is there a point at which vigilantism becomes justified? - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattfx View Post
    Realisticly what should be happening is the Police making a nationwide statement saying that moped crime of this nature will no longer be tolerated and where necessary excessive force can and will be used to prevent it. If you give the perps fair warning I see absolutely no reason why a couple of rubber bullets and subsequent falls off of scooters would really harm anyone, other than those breaking the law. (they'd probably get a healthy dose of acid when their contain breaks as they fall off too - nothing like a dose of your own medicine.) The Police only need to make an example a few times to make the majority of these crimes go away.

    However, our relatively spineless enforcement agents aren't as comfortable as our foreign comparatives in using force to detain common criminals, which is a shame. Then again, they're probably too busy catching people doing 23 in a 20 trying to top up the budget shortfall to ensure they get their Christmas party this year.

    Anyone even considering taking the law into their own hands in this instance is just asking for trouble. Either they will fail and get acid thrown in their face, or succeed and end up arrested for assault, false imprisonment, or worse.
    Unfortunately, the Tories don't give a damn about ordinary victims of crime. Time for a Labour government to do something to tackle the problem.

    National guidelines state that only officers with advanced-level training can pursue vehicles, that they must receive sign-off from their control room and their tactical adviser, and throughout any pursuit they are subject to continued risk assessment. Nonetheless, the law as it stands carries a significant risk to them: if prosecuted, their driving behaviour would be assessed on the same basis as any “competent and careful driver”; there is no specific exemption for emergency manoeuvres beyond dis-applying the speed limit. That has led the Police Federation recently to advise police drivers, including on bikes, not to perform any driving manoeuvre that would be illegal for any other “careful and competent” driver in normal circumstances.

    That is hampering the ability of the police to apprehend very serious offenders and take them off the streets. Bikers who have progressed well beyond petty crime into much more serious gang-related activity, to the point where the Met police has now classified moped-enabled crime as serious organised crime. We need to be sure that our officers have been sufficiently trained, that they have the skills and the experience to make the right decisions, that they can pursue until it is too dangerous – and that they do not if it is not safe for the public. They should be assessed based on their special training and circumstances, not compared to how you and I might normally drive. That in turn requires legislative change, and for the government to stop dragging its feet.

    We need to have confidence that the police will enforce the law. The police need to have confidence that the law itself allows them to do so. If we don’t tackle this, we will hand our streets over to criminals and it will be the poorest communities that will suffer the most.

    Louise Haigh is the shadow policing minister and MP for Sheffield Heeley
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattfx View Post
    Realisticly what should be happening is the Police making a nationwide statement saying that moped crime of this nature will no longer be tolerated and where necessary excessive force can and will be used to prevent it. If you give the perps fair warning I see absolutely no reason why a couple of rubber bullets and subsequent falls off of scooters would really harm anyone, other than those breaking the law. (they'd probably get a healthy dose of acid when their contain breaks as they fall off too - nothing like a dose of your own medicine.) The Police only need to make an example a few times to make the majority of these crimes go away.

    However, our relatively spineless enforcement agents aren't as comfortable as our foreign comparatives in using force to detain common criminals, which is a shame. Then again, they're probably too busy catching people doing 23 in a 20 trying to top up the budget shortfall to ensure they get their Christmas party this year.

    Anyone even considering taking the law into their own hands in this instance is just asking for trouble. Either they will fail and get acid thrown in their face, or succeed and end up arrested for assault, false imprisonment, or worse.
    It doesn't matter what kind of a harsh announcement or warning notices they issue, if the police officers are not enforcing them. And the Police officers are not enforcing them because the overzealous prosecution of officers for doing their job, like what happened here

    The current standing orders are to not pursue moped riders that are without helmets, so the crims just take off their helmets if they spot a police chasing them and go scot free - how retarded is that?

    And it's all because one alleged criminal essentially committed suicide, by riding without a helmet and crashing while running away from the police.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    Unfortunately, the Tories don't give a damn about ordinary victims of crime. Time for a Labour government to do something to tackle the problem.



    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...skills-numbers

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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrilloPad View Post
    I am sure I saw an article yesterday about a topless lady in a block of flats shooting up - caught on the communal CCTV.

    A resident called police who said to delete the footage. It might cause the lady distress......
    No, it was her local council who said she should delete the footage, Tower Hamlets if memory serves.

    And the druggie wasn't topless but bottomless, as she had her jeans down (or skirt pulled up - I forget which) and was injecting into her upper thigh.

    In fairness, I suppose anyone forwarding or publishing the footage could have been prosecuted like anyone else doing the same with indecent images of someone presumably taken without their consent.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by sal View Post

    The current standing orders are to not pursue moped riders that are without helmets, so the crims just take off their helmets if they spot a police chasing them and go scot free - how retarded is that?
    In fact this applies to all motorcyclists (across most counties, but not Berkshire I think!?) - I know of someone who did just this because he was riding his scrambler without a plate, MOT, etc. from a field back to his garage, saw blues so just threw his lid off. chase halted immediately.

    It's completely wrong.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by xoggoth View Post
    Orpington residents' call to start vigilante group to tackle moped gang | News Shopper

    Normally a pretty bad idea for the obvious reasons, no proper rules,no checks on suitability of individuals involved and lack of professional systems may result in violent action, likelihood of mistakes and the wrong people being accused.
    A problem with vigilantism is that no boundaries or actions are defined.
    Upon catching a moped villain do the vigilantes:

    a) Look him in the eye and give him a jolly good telling off.
    "You've been a very naughty boy. Please don't do it again or we'll tell your mother. On your way now you rascal"

    or

    b) First hit the little f***** hard in the balls with a baseball bat. As he falls to the ground rip off his helmet, stamp hard on
    his neck and break his f******g arms, the f*****g worthless c**t.
    Say "We're gonna make you pay you fu**ing piece of sh*t!"
    Hang the little fu**er until dead using rope and the nearest lamppost.
    Say to his lifeless body "You piece of sh*t. We'll show you fu**ing acid"
    Dissolve his body completely using sulfuric acid.

    or something in between - and who make the rules and decides the limits ?
    Last edited by SunnyInHades; 25th October 2017 at 12:33.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyInHades View Post
    A problem with vigilantism is that no boundaries or actions are defined.
    Upon catching a moped villian do the vigilantes:

    a) Look him in the eye and give him a jolly good telling off.
    "You've been a very naughty boy. Please don't do it again or we'll tell your mother. On your way now you rascal"

    or

    b) First hit the little f***** hard in the balls with a baseball bat. As he falls to the ground rip off his helmet, stamp hard on
    his neck and break his f******g arms, the f*****g worthless c**t.
    Say "We're gonnna make you pay you fu**ing peice of sh*t!"
    Hang the little fu**er until dead using rope and the nearest lamppost.
    Say to his lifeless body "You piece of sh*t. We'll show you fu**ing acid"
    Disolve his body completly using sulfuric acid.

    or something in between - and who make the rules and decides the limits ?
    The middle ground is a citizen's arrest, which is well defined in law. The difficulty is organising squads of citizens to actively enforce the law. Next thing you know, some Brexiteer has beaten up a paediatrician.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    Next thing you know, some Brexiteer has beaten up a paediatrician.
    Hard Brexit now!
    #prayfornodeal

  9. #19

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    b) First hit the little f***** hard in the balls with a baseball bat. As he falls to the ground rip off his helmet, stamp hard on
    his neck and break his f******g arms, the f*****g worthless c**t.
    Say "We're gonna make you pay you fu**ing piece of sh*t!"
    Hang the little fu**er until dead using rope and the nearest lamppost.
    Say to his lifeless body "You piece of sh*t. We'll show you fu**ing acid"
    Dissolve his body completely using sulfuric acid.
    Sounds very sensible to me. Bring back anarchy. What have laws ever done for us?
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  10. #20

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    There's no point giving the police carte blanche when our justice system won't dish out punishments to fit the crime.

    What these yobbos need is a Short.Sharp.Shock.

    Bring back Willie Whitelaw.

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