A quarter of estate agents 'in financial distress'

[vetran]

AI is a very long way away from taking a detailed clinical and social history from a distressed patient and family (or even in less fraught circumstances). History taking is an art as well that requires listening and social interaction, knowing when to stay quiet and when to ask a question - and how to ask questions.

AI certainly has a role in decision-making (e.g. recommending investigations and treatments, based on diagnoses, symptoms, events and clinical findings), and this should lead to improved outcomes and efficiencies, but this is only a part of clinical work, and if some tasks are removed from doctors, this occurs within the context of increasing demand on services.

20 years ago I phoned up and booked a hotel, I talked to the human cashier, 40 years ago I asked to be transferred to a contact on the phone. I went into a shop and purchased an item from the skilled salesperson rather than having items recommended to me on my perceived preferences.

Yes overall Doctors will still be needed but 80% of patient interaction will be automated. Reception & triage will be first. You illness will be identified and you will end up on a 'pathway'.

[Old Greg]

20 years ago I phoned up and booked a hotel, I talked to the human cashier, 40 years ago I asked to be transferred to a contact on the phone. I went into a shop and purchased an item from the skilled salesperson rather than having items recommended to me on my perceived preferences.

Yes overall Doctors will still be needed but 80% of patient interaction will be automated. Reception & triage will be first. You illness will be identified and you will end up on a 'pathway'.

Clinical examination is the other thing which is hard to automate. Automation will do well where there is clear data. This is why early detection of sepsis is a 'win' for clinical decision support. Other conditions that are largely driven by clinical data will follow. But there is an awful lot of vagueness in medicine, and in presenting symptoms. Ask a GP about the caseloads that they see.

Hotel booking is a high volume low variation process. There's a nice article here which I found when I googled 'healthcare airline fallacy'.

[LondonManc]

You'll still need the human touch in hospitals to deal with the emotional side of things and generally explained to worried parents what's happening to their kids and other soft stuff that AI won't handle, no matter how good Asimov thinks they'll get.

[vetran]

You'll still need the human touch in hospitals to deal with the emotional side of things and generally explained to worried parents what's happening to their kids and other soft stuff that AI won't handle, no matter how good Asimov thinks they'll get.

so we keep some nurses & psychiatrists.

It will change, probably sooner rather than later.

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/15/t...ter/index.html

they were working on this 20 years ago.

We will get to the point within 20 years you will have a care worker with little training taking a finger prick blood sample and popping it into a machine before you even see the doctor.

Trauma surgeons will probably stay but most others and GPs will be thinned out.

[vetran]

Clinical examination is the other thing which is hard to automate. Automation will do well where there is clear data. This is why early detection of sepsis is a 'win' for clinical decision support. Other conditions that are largely driven by clinical data will follow. But there is an awful lot of vagueness in medicine, and in presenting symptoms. Ask a GP about the caseloads that they see.

Hotel booking is a high volume low variation process. There's a nice article here which I found when I googled 'healthcare airline fallacy'.

so their conclusion was we should copy some of this but because doctors are so busy they will still kill patients.

Blood tests can be automated, scans & other investigations are far quicker (ingest-able pill).


Use technology and save time. If 80% can be spotted by machines you have most of your time to do the difficult cases.

[fatJock]

Clinical examination is the other thing which is hard to automate. Automation will do well where there is clear data. This is why early detection of sepsis is a 'win' for clinical decision support. Other conditions that are largely driven by clinical data will follow. But there is an awful lot of vagueness in medicine, and in presenting symptoms. Ask a GP about the caseloads that they see.

Hotel booking is a high volume low variation process. There's a nice article here which I found when I googled 'healthcare airline fallacy'.

As someone who drove himself to hospital despite the NHS hotline telling me I was OK I am big on going with your gut feeling and a non clinical diagnosis can’t replace that.

I was triggering for Sepsis on arrival at A&E and was promptly cared for. Immediately on intravenous antibiotics which I’m sure saved me from a world of mishap! I’d had a chest infection that just wouldn’t shift and in the end felt like I was was having a heart attack! God knows what would have happened if I just popped some Anadin and went to bed as advised.

NHS direct we’re useless at an arms length and basically told me I should have some paracetamol and go to bed. I ignored them and drove to hospital.

On arrival they said I should have called an ambulance. Ironically I thought doing so was overkill and a waste of resouces for those more in need meaning after my week long stay I was discharged only to be met with a parking ticket from a the parking management company in the hospital.

Says it all really. No replacement for gut instinct and no online triage workflow is going to be better than that, experience and physical consultation!

[vetran]

Says it all really. No replacement for gut instinct and no online triage workflow is going to be better than that, experience and physical consultation!

There are comprehensive blood tests and automated prioritising. Yes at first there will be issues so we will need dual running but fairly quickly it will become standard.

[fatJock]

At first there will be issues? It’s not handing out sweets....its making often critical decisions about people’s health. No room for technological collateral damage there.

When your heart is leaping out of its chest and the faceless person on the phone is telling you to pop a paracetamol and get some sleep give me a shout ��

Comprehensive blood tests? I was told to stay at home by the workflow and chastised for not calling an ambulance by the experts. How else would I have had these blood tests unless I’d ignored the initial advice?

[vetran]

At first there will be issues? It’s not handing out sweets....its making often critical decisions about people’s health. No room for technological collateral damage there.

When your heart is leaping out of its chest and the faceless person on the phone is telling you to pop a paracetamol and get some sleep give me a shout ��

Comprehensive blood tests? I was told to stay at home by the workflow and chastised for not calling an ambulance by the experts. How else would I have had these blood tests unless I’d ignored the initial advice?

If the blood tests are done as standard in a convenient way then its easier than the telephone. You pop into Tesco and they run the tests.

you know the old system doesn't work perfectly so you add a new system, you run them in parallel and you get an improvement but sometimes the new system isn't perfect so everyone says the new system is bust. You have to reassure them!

[fatJock]

I’ll reassure them when it’s you getting bum advice on the phone I’ll settle for seeing or speaking to a qualified person every time.

My ex-GF was a disenfranchised dental nurse looking for other options. After a week of NHS direct training she could have been dishing out advice she had no qualification to do so.

IMHO ....not every sector lends itself to more automation but each to their own 😊