Churchill - antisemitic racist or war hero? Churchill - antisemitic racist or war hero? - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Churchill was many things, some good some bad, but racist wasn't one of them. He was a major supporter of the Jewish community both in business and government, for example back into Edwardian times. And lest we forget, ( ) WW2 was about stopping a country intent on racial cleansing and white supremacy.

    Also, has anyone noticed that recorded incidents of deaths in police custody (about 1700 since 1990 apparently - although I rather hope most of those are not down to the police themselves...) split between white and BAME follow almost exactly the same ratio as those numbers in the general population...
    Well... WW2 was really "about" stopping German expansion. I doubt many leaders outside of the Jewish community and the non-Communist left were going to war with Germany to stop genocide and white supremacy.
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  2. #12

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    History is written by the winners.

    Churchill did some great things, Churchill did some bad things.
    There are those who will say that he must be forgiven for the bad things, because of the great ones. The rose-tinted goggles of history say that it's OK, he must only be celebrated.

    More recently, a celebrity raise lots of money for hospitals and charities. His statue was raised, hospital wings were named after him, his TV shows were popular back in the day. Turned out he was a bad person. Was it wrong of hospitals to rename their wings, or to take down his statue, just because even though he raised lots of money, he also did some bad things? Or is he less venerated because he wasn't built up as a historical hero, he was from our lifetime, so it's easier to knock him down?
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  3. #13

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    Churchill, Stalin & Roosevelt are the reason these protesters can protest and in many case actually exist.

    They were not cuddly. I for one am very glad they weren't.

    He was ahead of his time his 1934 speech:

    The Threat Of Nazi Germany - The International Churchill Society
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    Churchill, Stalin & Roosevelt are the reason these protesters can protest and in many case actually exist.

    They were not cuddly. I for one am very glad they weren't.

    He was ahead of his time his 1934 speech:

    The Threat Of Nazi Germany - The International Churchill Society
    Stalin cuddly!?! snigger
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    Churchill, Stalin & Roosevelt are the reason these protesters can protest and in many case actually exist.

    They were not cuddly. I for one am very glad they weren't.

    He was ahead of his time his 1934 speech:

    The Threat Of Nazi Germany - The International Churchill Society
    Yeah, protesters in Eastern Europe were very grateful to Stalin, for about 50 years

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    History is written by the winners.

    Churchill did some great things, Churchill did some bad things.
    There are those who will say that he must be forgiven for the bad things, because of the great ones. The rose-tinted goggles of history say that it's OK, he must only be celebrated.

    More recently, a celebrity raise lots of money for hospitals and charities. His statue was raised, hospital wings were named after him, his TV shows were popular back in the day. Turned out he was a bad person. Was it wrong of hospitals to rename their wings, or to take down his statue, just because even though he raised lots of money, he also did some bad things? Or is he less venerated because he wasn't built up as a historical hero, he was from our lifetime, so it's easier to knock him down?
    He was a prolific child abuser, which makes him easier to knock down you complete oddball.
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Greg View Post
    Well... WW2 was really "about" stopping German expansion. I doubt many leaders outside of the Jewish community and the non-Communist left were going to war with Germany to stop genocide and white supremacy.

    No it wasn't. Lets look at some expert opinion:

    Churchill and the Holocaust: The Possible and Impossible - The International Churchill Society

    I also found in an article which he wrote in April 1933, some two months after Hitler came to power, an extraordinary forecast or foresight, the recognition, which I haven’t seen elsewhere at the time: that it was not only the 500,000 Jews of Germany, but many other Jews, many millions of Jews elsewhere, who were now threatened. This is what he wrote:“There is a danger of the odious conditions now ruling in Germany, being extended by conquest to Poland and another persecution and pogrom of Jews being begun in this new area.”
    Churchill saw the anti-Jewish policies of the Nazis as affecting every element, not only of German life, but of the relationship between Germany and the other powers.

    Roosevelt
    "Arsenal of Democracy" Speech, Franklin Roosevelt, 29 December 1940

    There are those who say that the Axis powers would never have any desire to attack the Western Hemisphere. This is the same dangerous form of wishful thinking which has destroyed the powers of resistance of so many conquered peoples. The plain facts are that the Nazis have proclaimed, time and again, that all other races are their inferiors and therefore subject to their orders.
    Such a dictated peace would be no peace at all. It would be only another armistice, leading to the most gigantic armament race and the most devastating trade wars in history. And in these contests the Americas would offer the only real resistance to the Axis powers.With all their vaunted efficiency and parade of pious purpose in his war, there are still in their background the concentration camp and the servants of God in chains.
    The history of recent years proves that shootings and chains and concentration camps are not simply the transient tools but the very altars of modern dictatorships. They may talk of a "new order" in he world, but what they have in mind is but a revival of the oldest end the worst tyranny. In that there is no liberty, no religion, no hope.
    The proposed "new order" is the very opposite of a United States if Europe or a United States of Asia. It is not a government based upon the consent of the governed. It is not a union of ordinary, self?respecting men and women to protect themselves and their freedom and their dignity from oppression. It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and enslave the human race.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    Stalin cuddly!?! snigger

    oh sorry did I miss the sarcasm tag?

    Precisely of the three Uncle Joe was the really scary one, however he knew what would happen if Hitler won, it would have made him look like an amateur psychotic despot.

    If he hadn't fought the NAZIs, we would have lost. That is obvious.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post

    More recently, a celebrity raise lots of money for hospitals and charities. His statue was raised, hospital wings were named after him, his TV shows were popular back in the day. Turned out he was a bad person. Was it wrong of hospitals to rename their wings, or to take down his statue, just because even though he raised lots of money, he also did some bad things? Or is he less venerated because he wasn't built up as a historical hero, he was from our lifetime, so it's easier to knock him down?

    Really a pity the Police, BBC & Politicians who knew what was going on didn't expose him then!

    Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal - Wikipedia

    Newspaper reports claimed Douglas Muggeridge, controller of BBC Radio 1 in the early 1970s, was aware of allegations against Savile, and asked for a report in 1973.[48]Derek Chinnery, controller of Radio 1 from 1978 to 1985, recalled an occasion when he confronted Savile, saying, "I asked, 'What's all this, these rumours we hear about you Jimmy?' And he said, 'That's all nonsense'. There was no reason to disbelieve."[49]Michael Grade told Channel 4 News that during his time at the BBC he had "fleetingly" heard rumours about Savile, but described claims of a cover-up as "ludicrous".[50] The BBC said no evidence of allegations of misconduct or actual misconduct by Savile had been found in its files[51] and denied there had been a cover-up of his activities.[52][53]
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...-a6896246.html

    The BBC missed five major opportunities to stop the activities of broadcasters Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall, as five of its senior employees failed to report the suspicious behaviour of the sexual predators, Dame Janet Smith reported.
    In total 117 witnesses to her inquiry who had worked at the BBC said they were aware of rumours about Savile’s sexual conduct. But she defended her finding that “I have found no evidence that the BBC as a corporate body was aware of Savile’s conduct”, saying “this is not a whitewash”.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  10. #20

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    vetran is like Trump - says moronic thing and then claims it was a “joke” or “sarcasm”

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