move into trading? move into trading?
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  1. #1

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    Default move into trading?

    I get these sort of emails every week. Do these roles really exist? Who's known anyone who has made the move into trading out of straight dev work?
    Or is it agency bait?

    This Algorithmic trading team are looking for talented Java developers with strong mathematical skills and a desire to move into trading. You will be developing high frequency algorithmic trading systems using core java as well as working closely on desks with the traders designing and coding automated trading models. The desk deals primarily with thje Equities business although the platform is being expanded to cover more products. Any background will be considered but you must have experience with Core Java and an excellent knowledge of multithreading, Design patterns on high performance real time systems. Strong maths is also essential and for the right candidates the role will offer a move into the trading team. Business experience is secondary so this role will suit front office developers looking to move into a desk based role and learn more about the business but strong Java developers from any group within a bank or even outside finance will be considered. Algo trading, Java.

  2. #2

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    It's one of the things I do. They always want good math quals. Never understood why, I've taught harder stuff, Control Theory, to kids doing an ONC. IMHO once you understand a PID controller then all this trading contracts stuff is a piece of p1ss.

    There are a set of three books, lets see who else can name them. Once you've read them you'll be well up to speed on this stuff.

    Front office work can be a little stressed at times, depends on the players. When things go wrong some like to shout and scream, other places they'll just hover.

    Always go for an hourly rate, as the hours can be long, and if they really push for a professional working day rate it at 12 hours, 'cause that's what they're after.
    Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
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    Default

    Not sure what you mean by "moving into trading out of straight dev work" - this seems like a straight dev role but in a trading environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threaded View Post
    It's one of the things I do.
    Do you use your time travelling expertise? If so then that’s cheating. Any fool can make money by having the server providing the market data in the future connected to a trade execution provider in the present.
    Drivel is my speciality

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bored View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "moving into trading out of straight dev work" - this seems like a straight dev role but in a trading environment.
    I read it differently. To me they are saying you could end up trading, not developing trading systems.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by threaded View Post
    It's one of the things I do. They always want good math quals. Never understood why, I've taught harder stuff, Control Theory, to kids doing an ONC. IMHO once you understand a PID controller then all this trading contracts stuff is a piece of p1ss.

    There are a set of three books, lets see who else can name them. Once you've read them you'll be well up to speed on this stuff.

    Front office work can be a little stressed at times, depends on the players. When things go wrong some like to shout and scream, other places they'll just hover.

    Always go for an hourly rate, as the hours can be long, and if they really push for a professional working day rate it at 12 hours, 'cause that's what they're after.
    1) Options, Futures, and Other Derivatives
    2) ?
    3) ?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie74 View Post
    You will be developing high frequency algorithmic trading systems using core java as well as working closely on desks with the traders designing and coding automated trading models. The desk deals primarily with thje Equities business although the platform is being expanded to cover more products. Any background will be considered but you must have experience with Core Java and an excellent knowledge of multithreading, Design patterns on high performance real time systems.
    It's a pure development role - traders do not care at all about design patterns or multithreading

  8. #8

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    yes, by "move into trading" in this advert, they mean "move into development for traders" (or "move physically onto the trading desk but still doing dev, not trading").

    I do know people who started out in IT (not contracting) and are now traders. Quite simply, they got to know how their market worked, then applied within the same company for an entry-level trading desk job like order-filling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bored View Post
    It's a pure development role - traders do not care at all about design patterns or multithreading
    What about traders of tank tops?

  10. #10

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    I suspect there's some element of truth in the idea of moving into trading.

    I used to work in AI within the City and some of the work I saw was well into the realms of rocket science requiring supercomputing of the Cray or near Cray standard. My MSc examined a good deal of the financial trading systems that were about around ten years ago, and considering the advances in AI and computing power I'd be very surprised if the quants desks were not heavily involved in certain areas of the crossover between computational learning, stats, maths and high powered computing platforms.

    I still remember my first day contracting in the City in '94. I was shown round the desks said hello etc etc and then came across one desk with no-one sat at it, but the books said enough a guide to Standard ML and another text on Lattice Theory (If you need to ask waht they are you don't need to know!).

    As to the requirement for Java and multithreading I can only hestitate that they're working on heavily distributed systems for which Java excels. The Mac kernel that underpins Mac OS X for example automatically multitasks Java threads over multiple CPUs on multi core Macs which max out at 8 cores of 3 Ghz each IIRC. To get max performance out of such would require PhD level knowledge. Never mind the need for similar maths knowledge to hande the quants side of things.

    That you'd be moving into trading implies the trading would be fully or near fully automated and you would be expected to develop the trading models.

    Nick

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