workfare is fair workfare is fair
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1

    My post count is Majestic

    vetran has reached the peak. Play again?

    vetran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Come Friendly Bombs
    Posts
    34,140

    Default workfare is fair

    The jobless who would rather lose benefits than work - Telegraph

    Almost two thirds of benefits claimants referred to a mandatory work scheme do not turn up because they either take a job or stop claiming welfare
    May last year and August this year, more than 90,000 claimants have been referred to the Mandatory Work Activity scheme by Jobcentre staff.
    Of those, little more than 33,000 began work placements. Of the remaining 57,000, some found work, while others chose to stop claiming benefits.
    surprise, surprise.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  2. #2

    Godlike

    snaw is too good to be a permie

    snaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    5,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    I've not really changed my views vis-a-vis there has to be a safety net, but living in Asia I'm definitely coming to the conclusion we're all fcked (Including myself in this) in the west if we don't realise there are a LOT of smart people in developing areas of the world, willing to work for less supported by teaming masses who are striving to get their kids educated to get a piece of it. Cause the alternatives are pretty grim for them.

    Catch 22 for a bit of a leftie like me, but realty suggests that there's nothing like a bit of desperation to heal the sick. Then again, some of the poverty you see is pretty grim too.

    On principal it's the right thing, but in reality it unfortunately encourages lies and cheating, which takes away from the undoubtedly civilised and rightful object.

    Still thinking this one through. I'll let you know when I've worked it out
    Hang on - there is actually a place called Cheddar?? - cailin maith

    Any forum is a collection of assorted weirdos, cranks and pervs - Board Game Geek

    That will be a simply fab time to catch up for a beer. - Tay

    Have you ever seen somebody lick the chutney spoon in an Indian Restaurant and put it back ? - Cyberghoul

  3. #3

    More fingers than teeth

    DodgyAgent is NOT a disguised employee


    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snaw View Post
    I've not really changed my views vis-a-vis there has to be a safety net, but living in Asia I'm definitely coming to the conclusion we're all fcked (Including myself in this) in the west if we don't realise there are a LOT of smart people in developing areas of the world, willing to work for less supported by teaming masses who are striving to get their kids educated to get a piece of it. Cause the alternatives are pretty grim for them.

    Catch 22 for a bit of a leftie like me, but realty suggests that there's nothing like a bit of desperation to heal the sick. Then again, some of the poverty you see is pretty grim too.

    On principal it's the right thing, but in reality it unfortunately encourages lies and cheating, which takes away from the undoubtedly civilised and rightful object.

    Still thinking this one through. I'll let you know when I've worked it out
    If you need any help
    Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

  4. #4

    My post count is Majestic

    vetran has reached the peak. Play again?

    vetran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Come Friendly Bombs
    Posts
    34,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snaw View Post
    I've not really changed my views vis-a-vis there has to be a safety net, but living in Asia I'm definitely coming to the conclusion we're all fcked (Including myself in this) in the west if we don't realise there are a LOT of smart people in developing areas of the world

    Still thinking this one through. I'll let you know when I've worked it out
    by george I think she's got it.

    good luck.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  5. #5

    Super poster

    speling bee 's job has never been outsourced

    speling bee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snaw View Post
    I've not really changed my views vis-a-vis there has to be a safety net, but living in Asia I'm definitely coming to the conclusion we're all fcked (Including myself in this) in the west if we don't realise there are a LOT of smart people in developing areas of the world, willing to work for less supported by teaming masses who are striving to get their kids educated to get a piece of it. Cause the alternatives are pretty grim for them.

    Catch 22 for a bit of a leftie like me, but realty suggests that there's nothing like a bit of desperation to heal the sick. Then again, some of the poverty you see is pretty grim too.

    On principal it's the right thing, but in reality it unfortunately encourages lies and cheating, which takes away from the undoubtedly civilised and rightful object.

    Still thinking this one through. I'll let you know when I've worked it out
    What puzzles me is: if unemployment is caused by laziness, why is there always an international outbreak of laziness during global economic downturns?
    The material prosperity of a nation is not an abiding possession; the deeds of its people are.

    George Frederic Watts

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman's_Park

  6. #6

    Contractor Among Contractors

    Freamon is too good to be a permie

    Freamon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speling bee View Post
    What puzzles me is: if unemployment is caused by laziness, why is there always an international outbreak of laziness during global economic downturns?
    It's actually the laziness that causes the downturns, unemployment is just one of the side effects.
    "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It’s the s*** that happens while you’re waiting for moments that never come." -- Lester Freamon

  7. #7

    Fingers like lightning

    RasputinDude is too good to be a permie

    RasputinDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    569

    Default

    I think it's a bit more nuanced.

    The benefit system in this country is rubbish from all angles. Let's say - just for a moment - that a professional engineer loses their job for some reason. Taking aside redundancy etc - maybe they have just moved to their new company - the moment that they lose their job, they are being punished. I would argue that it is much better for the state to help support that person by keeping in their own house, keeping their self esteem high by paying them a proportion of their salary than to reduce them to almost immediate penury. The chances that that professional person - given the right support - would find work quicker on their own than being forced to attend workfare courses and being made to explain their situation ad infinitim to job centre workers.

    Now take the opposite of that person - someone who has never shown any inclination to work - why should they continually be liberated from the consequences of their actions?

  8. #8

    Contractor Among Contractors

    escapeUK is good enough for Jehovah!


    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RasputinDude View Post
    I think it's a bit more nuanced.
    Benefits should simply be contribution based. The engineer who was paid £10ks in tax (NI) over the years will be taken care of. The chav or immigrant who has never worked a day in his life will get nothing unless he spends the day working. Id do the same with the NHS for people over 21.

  9. #9

    Super poster

    speling bee 's job has never been outsourced

    speling bee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by escapeUK View Post
    Benefits should simply be contribution based. The engineer who was paid £10ks in tax (NI) over the years will be taken care of. The chav or immigrant who has never worked a day in his life will get nothing unless he spends the day working. Id do the same with the NHS for people over 21.
    That will reduce public spending, but it won't create jobs (but hang on a minute.) Look at the mass unemployment of the 1930s within the context of lack of benefits and other provisions. People didn't work because there were no jobs.

    Now, there is a hard core of people who won't work, no matter what. I have known some of them. The time to address this is in times of low unemployment, but it is always politically convenient to hammer people when unemployment is high to distract from the real causes of the economic mess.
    The material prosperity of a nation is not an abiding possession; the deeds of its people are.

    George Frederic Watts

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postman's_Park

  10. #10

    Contractor Among Contractors

    escapeUK is good enough for Jehovah!


    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speling bee View Post
    That will reduce public spending, but it won't create jobs (but hang on a minute.)
    If I wasnt heavily taxed to pay people to do nothing, then I might have the money to employ a cleaner, others might employ a nanny to help raise their children rather than having them dragged up in expensive child care.

    We'll find out how it will work soon, as the way things are going even if tax was 100% it wont be enough to pay for those who do nothing. Obviously the system will collapse long before that point thank goodness.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •