Termination

[NickFitz]

If you're working through an umbrella you're not a freelance contractor.

HTH...

What makes you think working through your own limited is what makes you a freelance contractor? It's just an arrangement for taxation purposes, as is working through an umbrella. It's not as if you're any more, or less, truly in business for yourself depending on how you choose to arrange for your payroll to be processed.

[malvolio]

What makes you think working through your own limited is what makes you a freelance contractor? It's just an arrangement for taxation purposes, as is working through an umbrella. It's not as if you're any more, or less, truly in business for yourself depending on how you choose to arrange for your payroll to be processed.

I really don't where to start with that one...

But MyCo isn't there to process a payroll, the taxation benefits it brings are incidental and I have more than one income stream to manage. There is a wide gulf between being a freelance and being a temporary contractor in terms of both effort and responibility. There are freelances who use umbrellas for convenience, but most are doing it instead of running their own business.

[AtW]

Most of the contracts I see are only 3 months anyway. Getting rid of someone in the first week because they are useless is acceptable, if you came to me and said you were getting rid of someone I'd been paying for 12 weeks because they were useless you would be joining them.

MF will punch you in the face before he leaves

[suityou01]

Not sure I could afford you or cover the amount of sick time you take off.

Not taken a day sick this year.

HTH

[AtW]

Four weeks' notice does NOT mean four weeks' work...

What does that notice period mean then?

If someone did it to me (terminated contract without paying full notice period) then I'd certainly take them to court for breach of contract - as a business I would not do such thing to contractors either: deliberate breach of contract, who'd want to deal with us if such things came out in public (which it would in court action)???

The best course of action in such case is to apologise for plans changing, give notice, say that it would be fully paid up and ask in return to help with some other work instead, and if contractor finds new contract during notice period then allow them to leave early on mutual agreement.

[northernladuk]

I've seen a few references on here along the lines of, work finishes early/dries up, you don't get paid. I'm relatively new to contracting but I try to meet my obligations, so no early exit. Most of my contracts have a mutual notice period, but comments seem to suggest this isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Surely if I sign a contract which gives a start date, provided I turn up it's up to them to find work for me, I have had a couple of contracts where it has taken them around a month to sort out equipment and access. I've done my best to be productive, but basically wasted 4-5 weeks. I've never been in a situation where I was terminated early, but if there is a 4 week notice period I would expect 4 weeks pay if they suddenly announced the work had dried up. If I was in a trade where you have several customers a week I would expect to offer some flexibility, but when I've wasted time interviewing, committed to them and dropped other potential contracts, arranged travel and accommodation, I expect some sort of recompense. I've taken the hit of losing a days pay and traveling to London for an interview, but if they get as far as a contract I expect payment.

You seriously want to read up on IR35 a bit more..... if that is your attitude then early termination is the last of your problems....

[AtW]

You seriously want to read up on IR35 a bit more..... if that is your attitude then early termination is the last of your problems....

He just did not phrase it correctly.

If contract says 4 weeks notice then it should be fully paid - he might not be able to demand to stay on site all this time, but this period needs to be paid because it is a contractual obligation that was agreed to.

Plan C - no-win-no-fee service to contractors whose contractual terms were breached and they ended up with unpaid notice period.

[northernladuk]

He just did not phrase it correctly.

If contract says 4 weeks notice then it should be fully paid - he might not be able to demand to stay on site all this time, but this period needs to be paid because it is a contractual obligation that was agreed to.

Plan C - no-win-no-fee service to contractors whose contractual terms were breached and they ended up with unpaid notice period.

Ok I can see that.. As long has he means find work as per the contract schedule. I thought it meant find work as in something else he wasn't brought on to do...

Either way... I don't agree. At xmas most of are asked not to come in as all the permies are off. There is no work for us to do as everyone we need is also off so won't be good use of the time (arguable depending on what you do but you get the gist) so you don't get paid. It is exactly the same principle at the end of the contract.. Work dries up, nothing to do so you don't come in. You can have your 4 weeks notice of termination of contract but you won't be paid a penny during that period... so effectively appears to be early termination.

If the work dries up and then you are expected to be given extra work to fill the time then I go back to my original comment regarding IR35. Once your work is done, you are done.

[AtW]

At xmas most of are asked not to come in as all the permies are off. There is no work for us to do as everyone we need is also off so won't be good use of the time (arguable depending on what you do but you get the gist) so you don't get paid. It is exactly the same principle at the end of the contract..

No, it's not the same.

If you were told near Xmas to bugger off and not come back then it would be the same - notice period applies.

If you were asked at Xmas to take short holiday, but otherwise come back for more work (many months more), then it would be a commercial decision on your part how to treat it - smart thing is to take holiday (not unreasonable given time period). Best if this is put in contract so that there are no questions about it.

It's certainly NOT the same situation.

If the work dries up and then you are expected to be given extra work to fill the time then I go back to my original comment regarding IR35. Once your work is done, you are done.

Well, I am not expert on IR35, from my point of view it's B2B contract with short notice period that is contractually required to be honoured - by not making sure it happens you might not be doing your fiduciary duty to shareholders and upsetting your wife in process.

[northernladuk]

No, it's not the same.

If you were told near Xmas to bugger off and not come back then it would be the same - notice period applies.

If you were asked at Xmas to take short holiday, but otherwise come back for more work (many months more), then it would be a commercial decision on your part how to treat it - smart thing is to take holiday (not unreasonable given time period).

It's certainly NOT the same situation.

It is to me.

Situation A) There is no work available due to the situation, i.e all permies off so don't come in, don't get paid.
Situation B) There is no work available i.e. project has finished so don't come, don't get paid.

Why is that different? OK in option A there is a termination period ticking down in the background but that makes no difference to the pocket. In your example you take the time over xmas and don't come back in again you are not earning anything as there is no work? Seems to be exactly the same to me.

I don't get asked to have holidays by my client, they are not my employer.