Loan - self assessment

[WalterWhite]

That's a very fair point.

However she says she used them for 5 months. £21k + any salary and fees (likely 20% minimum) would indicate she earns upwards of £5k a month

Obviously that is just in this case, I take the original point that others will not be so lucky

[ConfusedEasily]

However she says she used them for 5 months. £21k + any salary and fees (likely 20% minimum) would indicate she earns upwards of £5k a month

Obviously that is just in this case, I take the original point that others will not be so lucky

A chat with my wife suggests that these schemes are still rife in the NHS amongst nurses...

WTF HMRC is not trying to close these scheme/umbrellas down is beyond me...

[difficulttimes]

A chat with my wife suggests that these schemes are still rife in the NHS amongst nurses...

WTF HMRC is not trying to close these scheme/umbrellas down is beyond me...

I was talking to a social worker the other day who was pushed inside IR35 and she signed up to one of these 'umbrella' companies. Apparently, the recruitment agency gave her a list of red, amber and green umbrella companies depending on your risk appetite. Anyway, she chose the amber one as I'd imagine many others did and knew nothing about the loan charge etc. I got her to call the agency and their response was that 'we have hundreds of nurses, social workers, care workers etc. using this company so there is no problem'. Of course the majority of these guys don't know any better and really the recruitment agencies should not be pushing them. I said to her the reason they were flippant about it is I bet they are getting a slice of the pie for them using the agency. No slice of the pie if it is a legitimate one. I would have thought that the enablers legislation would have stopped this but my bet is that hidden in the small print of the contract is an indemnity clause so they aren't liable - probably push it back onto the contractor.
Really worrying times as most of these guys aren't your £500/day contractor but guys that are earning £15-25/hour. Many if not most would be in a world of pain with this loan charge.
The writing was on the wall though when they made the IR35 changes...

More should be done.

[BrownOwl]

A chat with my wife suggests that these schemes are still rife in the NHS amongst nurses...

WTF HMRC is not trying to close these scheme/umbrellas down is beyond me...

HMRC appear to prefer to do nothing and use Parliament to introduce retroactive/retrospection legislation to grab the tax.

[MyxALot]

A chat with my wife suggests that these schemes are still rife in the NHS amongst nurses...

WTF HMRC is not trying to close these scheme/umbrellas down is beyond me...

Because they are complicit in promoting tax avoidance so that they can claim max tax + penalties in future years. Why would they go to the effort and cost of protecting people from these schemes when they can use the same resources to grab many times more money back from advocating them? It's a win-win for HMRC.

[regron]

A chat with my wife suggests that these schemes are still rife in the NHS amongst nurses...

WTF HMRC is not trying to close these scheme/umbrellas down is beyond me...

Simple, you have to ask what incentive does HMRC have in rushing to close down these schemes. Why bite the hand that feeds you !!

[eek]

More should be done.

More has been done. See https://liquidfriday.co.uk/failure-prevent-tax-evasion/ or https://albertgoodman.co.uk/criminal-finances-act-2017/

If you want to ruin the weekend of the director of said agency ask him if he is aware of the Criminal Finances Act 2017 and point him in the direction of that second link.

[difficulttimes]

More has been done. See https://liquidfriday.co.uk/failure-prevent-tax-evasion/ or https://albertgoodman.co.uk/criminal-finances-act-2017/

If you want to ruin the weekend of the director of said agency ask him if he is aware of the Criminal Finances Act 2017 and point him in the direction of that second link.

This is tax evasion though which makes it a criminal act. These schemes are tax avoidance and we don't need to go down that road of the difference....
Although re-reading it either the author of the article doesn't know the difference or HMRC don't???

[eek]

This is tax evasion though which makes it a criminal act. These schemes are tax avoidance and we don't need to go down that road of the difference....
Although re-reading it either the author of the article doesn't know the difference or HMRC don't???

If you think those schemes are tax avoidance then you have a very interesting interpretation of the law as HMRC currently see it. That law is there to encourage agencies to ensure they only point customers at appropriate legitimate umbrellas. Now you could question whether HMRC will use this act but I suspect were a suitable agency dealing with social workers say to enter HMRC radar they may try and make an example of them for political reasons..

[nucastle]

You are making a hell of an assumption there. When the scheme providers ran out of rich fools they started to pretend to be umbrella companies and targeted people who didn't earn much but the agency didn't want to do payroll

There are a lot of supply teachers / nurses / care workers who are going to be caught up in this. And for them £500 is a lot of money that many don't have...

Yeah I guess I made those hell like assumptions on the 5 months she stated, as well as the figure, and did some fag packet maths based on that.