Trust help line email help!

[Doggysoft]

Sorry if this is repetition and not new but:

As someone mentioned above, I too was told that you did not have to repay the loans when asked and could simply refuse etc. I'm sure I have it written in text so will try and find it. The messages I've sent to the person I dealt with at the companies have had replies along the lines of:

"The term of the loan was 30 years. So unless there was a reason to call it in early. Plus it had to be in your best interest to recall the loan. I’d check with someone and ask them to help as it’s all changed now since I was there. "

I have a PM enquiry too. I'll fire that to webberg

[1234]

Settle HMRC and THL do nothing

All quick question what happens if you settle with HMRC with regards to paying the correct tax and ignore THL request to pay this percentage of the loans do these people have a claim to ask for money that was already yours in the first place?

[Doggysoft]

All quick question what happens if you settle with HMRC with regards to paying the correct tax and ignore THL request to pay this percentage of the loans do these people have a claim to ask for money that was already yours in the first place?

After keeping tabs on the whole thread, it appears we do not know. It seems a bit like Brexit to me. The strongest voices have suggested to just ignore them and others have suggested that it was a genuine loan (in which case where did my/our money actually go then?)

I'm literally none the wiser and I'm also put off paying anything to them in case I get an IHT bill, which would then mean I've paid income tax, IHT, and blackmail money for want of a better description.

Not only that, they've said they don't even deal with Infinity (which is what IQ became) so it's likely that they would come back later on for the money from Infinity.

[creativity]

I was one of the first to reply to this thread and have read all pages of posts since. My advice is to ignore THL as they are unequivocally attempting to scam money from you.
Do not reply to their emails.

BTW
If anyone has home addresses, emails of individuals directors/accountants of Baker Tilley who are involved in the creation or running of this scam please PM me.

Again, do not communicate with these people as they are not doing anything for your benefit.

[cojak]

@bemi and @jbryce

Thank you both for sorting this out as the grownups you obviously are.

[Galvanised]

Been a Wall Flower till now...

Hey All,

First post from me, but I've been at this party of uncertainty for a fairly long time now. I thought I had clarity and finality when I finally made the decision to settle with HMRC about two years ago, but even with that dragging on i.e. I've written a cheque as a certificate of tax deposit, but the amount and actual settlement is still pending, I thought I had relative peace of mind around all this <gestures hands at the flaming pile of ruin that was "that particular decision ten years ago">.

And then the THL emails and texts start coming about 3 months or so ago. Like many other people I drew immediate conclusions along the lines of "what a %£%^ing scam" and had a bitter chortle to myself at how ham fisted there CRM efforts were, rife with spelling mistakes and straight from the marketing play-book of "how to induce urgency and drive sales".

But even with that bitter humour I was interested in what the wider contracting community was doing and thinking, and naturally I arrived at this thread. Early on I did clock one post from Webberg a while back which basically unsettled me. And that was Webbergs flat rejection of the assertion that these loans could not be called down. Webberg was entirely prepared as a subject expert to opine on the tax aspect of this whole mess (and thank you for that - it's a public service really) but the "liability" aspect was something deemed so complex and case specific that it would not be conscientious to give any kind of advice at all other than - "don't kid yourself and keep your head in the sand on this - this is a 'thing'".

Now as a person looking for clarity and finality that was not exactly what I wanted to read. Before I go on - let me first say to Webberg - thanks so much for saying that, even if I didn't want to hear it. In among the many helpful and supportive posts on this thread there has also I think been a bit of bush lawyering which ultimately strikes me as basically wishful thinking.

I think the "true" position from what I've been able to infer over this whole thread is that no-one knows which way this liability thing is going. Webberg has professionally stopped short of calling the THL outfit, outright conmen, my personal view is that they are immoral were-sharks with no humanity and that despite likely having legal advice from who knows where they likely don't know how enforcement and administration of the liability will go either.

For our part though the reason why we don't have certainty is because we haven't got a legal opinion on it, and that legal opinion even once given is not going to give us certainty, because it would need to be tested in a court. Plus there are likely a decent number of contract variants out there (although you would think that there would be some common boiler plate on this stuff).

Now - because I was so optimistic way back when I didn't keep a shred of my original agreements with any of these outfits. I cannot say how DEEPLY I regret that now. But I do think we need to get that stuff together because if we're to get any degree of certainty they we need the actual contract/agreements signed way back when. I DON'T want to engage with THL to attempt to try and get this stuff, as I don't think you'd get anywhere with that.

But I imagine that there are contractors out there that didn't make my mistake - if there are, please PM me and we can look at maybe creating some kind of online resource for people looking at recovering this information. Scrubbed clean of any PII data of course. My outfits were Horizon who then became Audacia and maybe something else in between then, and then Longacre going into Winchester. Thoughts on this everyone - does such a resource already exist?

What I'd ideally like to do is collect this stuff and then like the Big Group(?) are doing get some experts on this for some options (are the Big Group looking at this particular issue at all?). People have mentioned that potentially there has been some action around getting IoM regulators to take a look at Baker Tilly's actions as trustees. That's something I'd very much like to know more about, and if it hasn't been kicked off, how that might occur.

To be clear I don't want to stick my head in the sand on this any longer, but I don't see how I can actually engage anyone to act on my behalf (even an IoM regulator) without the actual documentation of what signed. It strikes me I have a number of options 1) The contractor community, 2) A Tax Accountant who probably has seen dozens of these things via clients and has many variants on file (could these be shared if scrubbed?), 3) THL (not an attractive option), 4) ask HMRC if they have anything (desperate or what eh) or 4) crack on without.

So yeah that's my first post - I imagine there are a lot of people following this thread who are in exactly the same position and like me have kept quiet till now. THL's urgency inducing emails won't get me to pay the 5% by X date, but they are galvanising me to try and do more about this. This stuff genuinely concerns me, my tax bill to HMRC was sizeable, the size of the loans themselves though, well that's a multiple of that number - I don't quite see how that can be ignored (and to be clear - totally ignoring THL - at least until genuine legal advice to the contrary suggests some kind of engagement).

Thoughts? Over ambitious? People have already been there and done that? Am I missing something obvious?

Webberg you've mentioned there are avenues of defence - at least I think that's what you said. What might some of those be, are they something you can share in this forum, or is that on an engagement basis only, or such avenues can exist once you engage a legal professional?

Cheers all and iIllegitimi non carborundum

[AlisonN]

Can I post to this thread?

disclaimer - I'm not a contractor, but my ex-hsuband is.
I have some concerns and questions relating to THL behaviour.
Al

[AlisonN]

Angry and confused.

My ex-husband used Sanzar and its offshoots for many years. A similar story to many - he was pushed into it by his Agency and then it sort of stuck. Then HMRC enquiries drove him into a world of stress and anxiety which he had never suffered from before. My ex was racked with depression and guilt. and our marriage foundered in the tulipstorm that we descended into.

Still - I've supported him through this. HRMC inquiries arrived and we dealt with the Contractor Help Desk and then Cobham Murphy. But Contractor HelpDesk disappeared and Cobham Murphy stopped taking calls. But at least Cobham Murphy was a real entity - someone we could talk to with real people and real names. We dealt with Garraway and Lynda Hogan-Smith who assured us that all enquiries were standard and it was just 'HMRC are trying it on'.

In the end, he decided to settle, my ex found some peace in this. It has cost him a lot emotionally and us both financially, but the fight had gone from him. He's 56, he just wanted some life back. Things improved and we found a way to become friends, living separately and co-parenting our children.

Several weeks ago he started getting emails from the Trust Help Line followed by daily texts. They were asking for 5% to write off the Loans; that's a lot of money which he doesn't have and neither do I. The threats of having to repay the loans drove him back into despair and the upping of his anti-depressants. I told him to just ignore it, there's nothing he can do - he can't afford the 5%, nor the 10% (that it will be tomorrow) and he can never pay the so-called loans back. But I guess it still got to him.

On Sunday he tried to commit suicide, luckily he answered the phone to my daughter who, hearing his slurred voice, called the police from a friends phone; she was on the phone as they broke into his flat. He's very unwell, but past the worst and likely to make a full recovery. I know he used these forums and that some of you will be thinking of following his lead. He's grateful he failed; we have three daughters and he loves them very much.
Life is precious. None of this hassle is worth losing your life for. Your loved ones and friends will never recover from your loss.
Our friends and our families have been wonderful, we have support and love and, even as a broken family, we will all get through this.

That's the background, but I'm angry and very confused.
Trust Help Line and Baker Tilly. Both have made money out of you all, yet they now want more. Why?
Is there a legitimate reason that my ex is being bombarded day and night with emails and texts? Is he missing something? Am I?
Can someone explain to me why Trust Help Line texts are still appearing on his phone - this morning in hospital at 3am?

The Trust Help Line website says:
We also act on behalf of Trustees to work in the Beneficiaries interest.

Can someone explain to me how driving the father of my children to attempt suicide is beneficial to anyone?

[Socialsarah73]

[QUOTE=AlisonN;2627465
Is there a legitimate reason that my ex is being bombarded day and night with emails and texts? Is he missing something? Am I?
Can someone explain to me why Trust Help Line texts are still appearing on his phone - this morning in hospital at 3am

Can someone explain to me how driving the father of my children to attempt suicide is beneficial to anyone?[/QUOTE]

I am so sorry to hear this and sending my thoughts to your family.

I would suggest you contact THL/Tilly baker and advise them not to contact your ex in light of the impact on his mental health. if they continue make a formal complaint to the Information commissioner (isle of Man). They would argue they have a legitimate reason for contacting and marketing their “kind” offer to pay them to release the loans. There is a reason why they are taking this approach and it’s not for mine or your exes benefit!

[Bemi]

How similar? Identical schemes, or just any one on a loan scheme? I'm guessing he means people on identical schemes...

Anyone on a loan scheme I think.

I'm sorry to say that when i finally got hold of him Talbott gave me absolutely nothing. He was only willing to tout his experience and try and plan in a paid session. Apologies; Sean is obviously much better at this than me!