Is Employee NI due on LC

[starstruck]

Anything from the professionals on the treatment of NI in the Loan Charge (not settlement)? ILikeTax?

EDIT - Have re-read this thread carefully and I think people are saying there is no NI on LC where employer is dissolved. At least that's what is said by wilks here and webberg here and not disagreed with by ILikeTax here.

I hope I have understood correctly.

[Delendog]

Anything from the professionals on the treatment of NI in the Loan Charge (not settlement)? ILikeTax?

EDIT - Have re-read this thread carefully and I think people are saying there is no NI on LC where employer is dissolved. At least that's what is said by wilks here and webberg here and not disagreed with by ILikeTax here.

I hope I have understood correctly.

I think all that was said before the below was published - not sure if this changes anything.
The Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

[starstruck]

I think all that was said before the below was published - not sure if this changes anything.
The Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Yes, and I don't really understand the implications (if any) of the change above. ILikeTax, where are you when we need you?

[webberg]

I think that the you need to distinguish between

Employees NIC - primary contributions

Employers NIC - secondary contributions

The legislation released very recently is for secondary contributions.

Bear in mind that the loan charge arises on employers and this seems to say that where that actually happens, secondary contributions are due.

Where the employer is around but does not pay, primary contributions will be due (thank you Iliketax) but I confess I remain unclear why in that case the employer is not assessed.

Where the employer is not around, primary NIC is probaly not due.

[starstruck]

I think that the you need to distinguish between

Employees NIC - primary contributions

Employers NIC - secondary contributions

The legislation released very recently is for secondary contributions.

Bear in mind that the loan charge arises on employers and this seems to say that where that actually happens, secondary contributions are due.

Where the employer is around but does not pay, primary contributions will be due (thank you Iliketax) but I confess I remain unclear why in that case the employer is not assessed.

Where the employer is not around, primary NIC is probaly not due.

Thanks Webberg, much appreciated.

[Iliketax]

I think all that was said before the below was published - not sure if this changes anything.
The Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Yes, and I don't really understand the implications (if any) of the change above. ILikeTax, where are you when we need you?

They do not change anything. There is still no employee or employer NIC if the original employer does not exist.

The new regulation (22C) makes clear that employee or employer NIC is due on 5 April 2019. It does not change whether employee / employer NIC is actually due.

My personal view is that the existing regulation (22B) cannot work in any other way but I guess someone at HMRC wanted to make that really clear.

[starstruck]

They do not change anything. There is still no employee or employer NIC if the original employer does not exist.

The new regulation (22C) makes clear that employee or employer NIC is due on 5 April 2019. It does not change whether employee / employer NIC is actually due.

My personal view is that the existing regulation (22B) cannot work in any other way but I guess someone at HMRC wanted to make that really clear.

Thanks ILikeTax much appreciated.

[wilks]

They do not change anything. There is still no employee or employer NIC if the original employer does not exist.

The new regulation (22C) makes clear that employee or employer NIC is due on 5 April 2019. It does not change whether employee / employer NIC is actually due.

My personal view is that the existing regulation (22B) cannot work in any other way but I guess someone at HMRC wanted to make that really clear.

____________

ILT What does your statement mean: "The new regulation (22C) makes clear that employee or employer NIC is due on 5 April 2019. It does not change whether employee / employer NIC is actually due".
Is that not a contradiction? Sorry I no comprende

[dammit chloe]

____________

ILT What does your statement mean: "The new regulation (22C) makes clear that employee or employer NIC is due on 5 April 2019. It does not change whether employee / employer NIC is actually due".
Is that not a contradiction? Sorry I no comprende

Seems to me like 22c makes clear the date that any NIC is due, if it's due. It doesn't change the conditions for if it's due. It is well confusing though.

[Iliketax]

Seems to me like 22c makes clear the date that any NIC is due, if it's due. It doesn't change the conditions for if it's due. It is well confusing though.

That's right. It's a bit like saying that the Christmas party is on the 21st. What it doesn't say though is whether you've got a ticket.