The loan charge is NOT a settlement "option" The loan charge is NOT a settlement "option" - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowpaidworker View Post
    I certainly have the name, exact date and time of the call.
    Trust me that won't be enough - get it in writing... That deal / commitment is only worth the paper it is written on
    Last edited by eek; 28th September 2020 at 09:50.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowpaidworker View Post
    I certainly have the name, exact date and time of the call.
    I also previously have had similar confirmation from HMRC including date and time of call - the gentleman said as long as the loan balance is declared correctly on the SATR, they will eventually close the case once they do their checks that the loan balance was correctly declared. I did get an email from them confirming so also but I was told this won’t mean anything if HMRC want to challenge. I know there is much debate on this this opinion by some members of this forum so I don’t know which way to go!
    Last edited by Ozcontractor; 28th September 2020 at 09:52.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozcontractor View Post
    I also previously have had similar confirmation from HMRC including date and time of call - as long as the loan balance is declared correctly on the SATR, they will eventually close the case once they do their checks that the loan balance was correctly declared. And then even an email from them confirming so. However this is very much against the opinion of some members of this forum so I don’t know which way to go!
    I'm just waiting for my letter/mail as i asked and they confirmed they would write to very shortly. I will go back on this and confirm that once i have declared my loans on the SATR and agreed a payment that is full and final and that these years are now closed. I am glad someone else has had a similar experience.

    I know this might be a case of someone junior making inaccurate statements but surely even the most junior of HMRC staff should know this.
    Last edited by lowpaidworker; 28th September 2020 at 09:54.

  4. #24

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    Should the question not be "will you issue a closure notice stating no further tax is owed?" That is what answer I would want in writing.
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  5. #25

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    We have been advised that HMRC has agreed that if the loan charge is paid they will close all enquiries by perhaps a dozen clients now.

    Those with written "evidence" from HMRC have sent that to us.

    In every case the words used by HMRC do NOT say that they will stop or give up enquiries.

    I'd be delighted if I could get my hands on incontrovertible evidence but to date, I have not.
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    We have been advised that HMRC has agreed that if the loan charge is paid they will close all enquiries by perhaps a dozen clients now.

    Those with written "evidence" from HMRC have sent that to us.

    In every case the words used by HMRC do NOT say that they will stop or give up enquiries.

    I'd be delighted if I could get my hands on incontrovertible evidence but to date, I have not.
    Thanks for the above. Can you then clarify the below extract from the HMRC website then? Does the second sentence imply that as long as you've declared the correct loan balances on your SATR, HMRC will not be able to tax you again on the same loan balance which you've declared on your SATR - effectively having to close the open enquiry down? In this case, assume there is an open year and the settlement offer would end up being more than paying the loan charge.

    As well as returning and paying the loan charge, you’ll still have to settle any enquiries into the DR schemes or take your case to a tribunal or court if you are unwilling to settle. Where you have paid the Loan charge, there’s a double tax rule to ensure you do not have to pay tax twice on the same income.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozcontractor View Post
    Thanks for the above. Can you then clarify the below extract from the HMRC website then? Does the second sentence imply that as long as you've declared the correct loan balances on your SATR, HMRC will not be able to tax you again on the same loan balance which you've declared on your SATR - effectively having to close the open enquiry down? In this case, assume there is an open year and the settlement offer would end up being more than paying the loan charge.

    As well as returning and paying the loan charge, you’ll still have to settle any enquiries into the DR schemes or take your case to a tribunal or court if you are unwilling to settle. Where you have paid the Loan charge, there’s a double tax rule to ensure you do not have to pay tax twice on the same income.
    If the settlement charge is more you will need to pay the extra.

    If the settlement charge is less HMRC won't and do not need to refund you the overpayment.

    The loan charge doesn't settle anything - it's just another advanced payment approach...
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    If the settlement charge is more you will need to pay the extra.

    If the settlement charge is less HMRC won't and do not need to refund you the overpayment.

    The loan charge doesn't settle anything - it's just another advanced payment approach...
    Thanks - and if there is no enquiry into a tax year and I voluntary declare the loan amounts and pay the loan charge, is that the end of that issue?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozcontractor View Post
    Thanks - and if there is no enquiry into a tax year and I voluntary declare the loan amounts and pay the loan charge, is that the end of that issue?
    If no enquiry and HMRC cannot open an enquiry into that year then the year is closed. And you can follow this logic below.

    Quote Originally Posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
    I'm assuming most people here can read code.

    Code:
    if (year < 2010) {
       the loan charge doesn't apply;
       if (year is closed) you're in the clear; nothing to pay;
       if (year is open) at some point in the future, you may either have to settle or contest
          the tax liability at a tribunal;  /* "future" could be several years */
    }
    
    if (year > 2010) {
       the loan charge does apply;
       if (settlement works out cheaper than loan charge) then settle;
       if (loan charge works out cheaper than settlement) {
          if (year is closed) you can pay the loan charge, and that's the end of the matter;
          if (year is open) you can pay the loan charge, but at some point in the future you may
             have to settle and pay the shortfall (settlement minus loan charge);  /* "future" could be many years */
       }
    }
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    If no enquiry and HMRC cannot open an enquiry into that year then the year is closed. And you can follow this logic below.
    Not forgetting the following with regards to closed years with regards to the Loan Charge, so tax payer should still do some due dilligence:

    the loan charge will not apply to outstanding loans made in any tax years before 6 April 2016 where a reasonable disclosure of the use of the tax avoidance scheme was made to HMRC and HMRC did not take action (for example, opening an enquiry into an Income Tax return)

    Disguised remuneration: guidance following the outcome of the independent loan charge review - GOV.UK
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