Indeed but come renewal time they should be running it again and the answer might be different? Strikes me as a very uncomfortable place to be in relying on outdated results of the tool even with their statement honouring it at the time of running it.
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HMRC decision tool: doubts about the selected answers, results, implications, ...
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostIndeed but come renewal time they should be running it again and the answer might be different? Strikes me as a very uncomfortable place to be in relying on outdated results of the tool even with their statement honouring it at the time of running it.Comment
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Our department stated their decision was final and for the length of the contract regardless of renewal, as long as the way the engagement is carried out does not change fundamentally.
I think it also helped that I was able to focus their mind on the dangers of workers asking for rights.
After they read the tribunal cases and got an understanding of the problem they were more than happy to understand the contract that was in place and adhere to it.
The cluster duck that HMRC have caused will be massive...Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostThe ESS does not, and will never have, any standing whatsoever in a tribunal or court of law .....
But does the HMRC statement that they will abide by the output of the tool as long as the answers are input accurately have any standing in a tribunal or court? Would the tribunal solely be deciding whether you are inside or outside IR35 or would they be deciding that your status is irrelevant given the HMRC promise? Does HMRC have the power to waive taxes that may be due in law?
Edit: I mean if you received an outside determination that HMRC tried to overturn. Obviously if you received an inside determination which was not consistent with case law then the courts would ignore the tool.Last edited by MeMeMe1966; 12 April 2017, 09:12.Comment
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Originally posted by bobspud View PostThe cluster duck that HMRC have caused will be massive...
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes" (Mark Twain)Comment
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Originally posted by MeMeMe1966 View PostWould the tribunal solely be deciding whether you are inside or outside IR35 or would they be deciding that your status is irrelevant given the HMRC promise? Does HMRC have the power to waive taxes that may be due in law?
If you had any dealings with them, you'd know they're more of a "I am altering the deal" type of bunch.
And as for the second question, the answer is No (roughly since the Goldman Sachs sweetheart deal fiasco). And if they could, they certainly wouldn't given the current climate and pressure they get from the Treasury to "collect" as much as possibly to replenish HMT's empty coffers.Comment
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Originally posted by DotasScandal View PostHMRC "promises" of ANY kind are not worth the paper they're written on (or not).
If you had any dealings with them, you'd know they're more of a "I am altering the deal" type of bunch.
And as for the second question, the answer is No (roughly since the Goldman Sachs sweetheart deal fiasco). And if they could, they certainly wouldn't given the current climate and pressure they get from the Treasury to "collect" as much as possibly to replenish HMT's empty coffers.
1) Taxes would be due as if the engagement was inside?
2) The liability for paying the taxes would not rest with the contractor as the legislation has transferred that liability?
3) The liability for paying the taxes would not rest with the client because they could evidence that they took "due care" arriving at their determination?
4) The fee payer would be liable for any additional taxes owing?
5) If the fee payer had a contract with the contractor indemnifying themselves against any taxes owing from the engagement then they could try to pursue the contractor for the taxes owing? <-- not sure if this would stand up in court?
6) Is anyone else getting dizzy?Comment
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Originally posted by MeMeMe1966 View Post6) Is anyone else getting dizzy?
I'm not quite sure why, but civil servants seem unable to remove complexity from a situation. The most common sense approach would have been to revoke the whole IR35 law in full and then set in stone a new law that properly covers the need for taxation and small business flexibility. But hey thats too easy so they would never go for it.Comment
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Originally posted by MeMeMe1966 View PostBut does the HMRC statement that they will abide by the output of the tool as long as the answers are input accurately have any standing in a tribunal or court? Would the tribunal solely be deciding whether you are inside or outside IR35 or would they be deciding that your status is irrelevant given the HMRC promise? Does HMRC have the power to waive taxes that may be due in law?
Edit: I mean if you received an outside determination that HMRC tried to overturn. Obviously if you received an inside determination which was not consistent with case law then the courts would ignore the tool.Comment
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Originally posted by bobspud View PostI'm not quite sure why, but civil servants seem unable to remove complexity from a situation
The hilarious thing though is that the ideologue behind this fiasco (textbook psychopath David Gauke) was for many years in charge of the "office for tax simplification". You couldn't make this up.Comment
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