Originally posted by malvolio
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HMRC deliberately omitted MOO from ESS/CEST
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"You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR -
HMRC deliberately omitted MOO from ESS/CEST
Originally posted by malvolio View PostPrecisely. That has been the case right back to the original RMC case in the 70s.
1.
- the client would accept a suitable substitute
2.
- the client would send them home in the absence of work
AND
- the client is not under obligation to extend a contract
AND
- the contractor is not under obligation to accept an extension
3.
- the contractor and the client discuss and agree ways of working (rather than the contractor takes instruction from the client)
AND
- the contractor is not obliged to accept changes to the initially agreed deliverables, and any agreed changes are documented appropriatelyComment
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Originally posted by meanttobeworking View PostSo in the case of an IT Contractor, gathering evidence for at least one, but ideally as many of the following points as possible for each contract, alongside carrying IPSE Plus membership and arguably IR35 insurance *should* place them in a reasonably comfortable position in case of investigation? Not withstanding any HMRC dirty tricks.
1.
- the client would accept a suitable substitute
2.
- the client would send them home in the absence of work
AND
- the client is not under obligation to extend a contract
AND
- the contractor is not under obligation to accept an extension
3.
- the contractor and the client discuss and agree ways of working (rather than the contractor takes instruction from the client)
AND
- the contractor is not obliged to accept changes to the initially agreed deliverables, and any agreed changes are documented appropriatelyComment
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So if it really does boil down to that, wouldn’t any client gladly confirm at least number 2 (and why wouldn’t they?), at which point I ask my self why we are all so worried?
Come on Malvolio and NLUK, tell me why this is too simpleComment
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Originally posted by meanttobeworking View PostWell, looks like I just solved IR35 then [emoji3]merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by meanttobeworking View PostSo in the case of an IT Contractor, gathering evidence for at least one, but ideally as many of the following points as possible for each contract, alongside carrying IPSE Plus membership and arguably IR35 insurance *should* place them in a reasonably comfortable position in case of investigation? Not withstanding any HMRC dirty tricks.
1.
- the client would accept a suitable substitute
2.
- the client would send them home in the absence of work
AND
- the client is not under obligation to extend a contract
AND
- the contractor is not under obligation to accept an extension
3.
- the contractor and the client discuss and agree ways of working (rather than the contractor takes instruction from the client)
AND
- the contractor is not obliged to accept changes to the initially agreed deliverables, and any agreed changes are documented appropriately
It's not that simple when using CEST. I played around with CEST the other day for fun, hence my post http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...test-ir35.html
The CEST tool is weighted towards a HMRC victory on pretty much every question. Even for the 3 areas you list above, if you look at CEST the questions do not give the consultant much chance of getting through unscathed. I won't repeat what I said in my post as there's too much info but to summarise: CEST will screw you unless you can answer very specifically, or you can force the client to take on a substitute without even approving that person.Comment
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Agreed. To be fair I’m talking about private sector IR35 defence, and this is in the public sector area of the forum, so I probably should have been clearer.Comment
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Originally posted by meanttobeworking View PostAgreed. To be fair I’m talking about private sector IR35 defence, and this is in the public sector area of the forum, so I probably should have been clearer.
The law surrounding IR35 has not changed at all and the usual remedies still apply. The CEST is merely one way to make an initial assessment, it cannot be definitive. The only good thing is that if you are found inside on a gig advertised as outside you won't be picking up the bill - unless you've signed something really silly in your contract about who is the fee payer.Blog? What blog...?Comment
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Originally posted by eek View PostNope because 2 is no different from a zero hour contract which would be under PAYE....Comment
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