Outside IR35 contractors 'shown the door' Outside IR35 contractors 'shown the door' - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    TheInvoicer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredBloke View Post
    Or the WIPRO guy gets on the phone and sells then their services for what the contractor would have cost but where IR35 does not apply. And no tax is due to HMRC because of it
    And the finance guys says ok to use wipro and the delivery guys gets no input. 6 months down the line the delivery hasn’t moved as would be planned/hoped and the costs are now going up to resolve/unwind and benefits getting lost. Accountancy guy asks the delivery guy why this has happened...what then?
    Or am I just unrealistic about the value we add?


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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by krytonsheep View Post
    At every large tech company I've contracted at, the management are usually under pressure to reduce contractor count ( to replace with permies). The IR35 reform will probably be seen as a perfect excuse to do that. Eventually if they can't find the talent and projects are getting delayed, then they'll have to start considering hiring contractors outside of IR35.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoredBloke View Post
    Or the WIPRO guy gets on the phone and sells then their services for what the contractor would have cost but where IR35 does not apply. And no tax is due to HMRC because of it
    It should be good practice to regularly review perm headcount and especially contractors/consultants.

    At one place I worked at, every quarter, the IT management team collectively went through a list of every single contractor and asked 'what's going to happen if we get rid of them?' Every contractor had to be justified and if no one could, they were terminated. Over a period of less than a year, the number of contractors was reduced by 25% and to be quite frank, no one noticed any reduction in output or service quality.

    Any contractors approaching two years service were also reviewed to see if the role should be a permanent one. Again, several contractor posts were converted to perm roles although a few contractors left instead.

    Admittedly, this is a more complicated exercise where there are hundreds or thousands of contractors but the principle is the same.

    I can't speak for Wipro but I've used one of the smaller Indian IT outfits and they were actually good quality and value for money for their offshore/onshore staff.

  3. #23

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    It’s good practise to be reviewing your resources versus demand and performance.
    Consultancy model is to maximise return through margins, low paid inexperienced resources help achieve that. Worked with plenty good folks around the world but how many times have you seen the consultancy team propped up by a couple of good people in front of many inexperienced people, it’s the norm not the exception.


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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredBloke View Post
    Or the WIPRO guy gets on the phone and sells then their services for what the contractor would have cost but where IR35 does not apply. And no tax is due to HMRC because of it
    For interest - my last project we were getting blended Rates of £550 a day for each wipro resource (from dev to testers to arch’s)

    Chaps told me they got paid between £26-£35k (that’s including there London housing allowance)

    Most worked 6 days a week 12 hours a day, if they did not, they were soon replaced


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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
    I think we need to forget ipse as “any hope” in the IR35 battle
    To be fair, I think it is incorrect to think of these, or any other guys, as magic bullets.

    It is the government they are up against and there have already been copious examples whereby reason and logic, and downright protests, go unheard and unheeded.

    I am sure they are doing as much as they can but at the end of the day, if the HMRC have already made up their mind, even God would be hard pressed to revert decisions.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by simes View Post
    To be fair, I think it is incorrect to think of these, or any other guys, as magic bullets.

    It is the government they are up against and there have already been copious examples whereby reason and logic, and downright protests, go unheard and unheeded.

    I am sure they are doing as much as they can but at the end of the day, if the HMRC have already made up their mind, even God would be hard pressed to revert decisions.
    Not just God, but any other make-believe entities too.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoredBloke View Post
    Or the WIPRO guy gets on the phone and sells then their services for what the contractor would have cost but where IR35 does not apply.
    Most large tech companies have offices around the world, so they already have direct access to teams which cost a lot less than the UK. But they know through experience, what the capabilities are of each location.
    The pattern I've seen is the hard / important stuff often ends up being done in the UK even though it's a lot more expensive. I think it comes down to a combination of ability and trust.

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