My accountants are suffering due ot the April 2020 reforms My accountants are suffering due ot the April 2020 reforms - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    Martin Niemöller

    and I've been saying this for years. There hasn't been anything like enough resistance from any organisation that might have been in a position to affect the issues. I have been widely condemned for my resistance, but I at least had a go at challenging the system.
    IT contractors are inherently individualists. So, no wonder.
    It is beyond believe how such a big group of people with so much leverage in terms of 'take unfinished project as a hostage' dont have an official union-like organization. Or not a working one anyway.
    But hey-ho 2020 is close....

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pscont View Post
    IT contractors are inherently individualists. So, no wonder.
    It is beyond believe how such a big group of people with so much leverage in terms of 'take unfinished project as a hostage' dont have an official union-like organization. Or not a working one anyway.
    But hey-ho 2020 is close....
    IT contractors are inherently individualists. So, no wonder.
    granted, which is why the likes of IPSE should have been more aggressive in the fight against IR35. They claim they were influencing HMG. If what we see today is a result of their influence, then I'd hate to think what other Draconian measures HMRC had in line for us.

    HMRC got up to their dirty tricks as soon as IR35 was implemented. They had case law within a few months against a retired policeman, who represented himself. I have my suspicions about that process.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohntheBike View Post
    granted, which is why the likes of IPSE should have been more aggressive in the fight against IR35. They claim they were influencing HMG. If what we see today is a result of their influence, then I'd hate to think what other Draconian measures HMRC had in line for us.

    HMRC got up to their dirty tricks as soon as IR35 was implemented. They had case law within a few months against a retired policeman, who represented himself. I have my suspicions about that process.
    Problem is for IPSE to be active it also needs active members - how many people have sent a letter/email to their MP on IR35 reform? Probably not many

  4. #14

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    IPSE is a fart - wouldn't touch them with a barge pole (this proverb in different language is literally 'wouldnt touch them with a shi.tty stick'). Only interested in their fees.

    IR35 has been a breeze so far = very hard to fall in if you are diligent. I guess some ITs are not. Fine.

    And yes you got it IPSE wont influence HMG - they simply can not.

    Only one who can are the big corps (banks, pharma, oil, telcoms, NHS etc.) Will they? No! Unless they are made to do so. How? Well, it's too late for this now.
    Last edited by pscont; 1st November 2019 at 11:49.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    I think I've said before that we we will see a contraction of the number of contractors for a couple of years and then a slow recovery.

    <snip>
    I disagree with this statement.

    We're seeing swaths of large corporations simply looking to rid themselves of the IR35 plague that the government has created. These corporations aren't looking at options: they are simply getting rid of all contractors so that in effect there is no problem for them to have to deal with. I don't think this will change.

    Furthermore, from the much smaller % of contractors that do get hired, pretty much all will be judged by clients to fall within IR35. These contractors will not need to use Accountants, MVL firms, Umbrellas, insurances etc.

    The reforms are already having an impact and they haven't even come into force yet. The entire ecosystem built around I.T. contracting will not survive for long. And the government, in it's dragon-chase for ever increasing tax receipts will ultimately find that they are trying to scrape a barrel that they themselves have punched a hole into.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by coder View Post
    Problem is for IPSE to be active it also needs active members - how many people have sent a letter/email to their MP on IR35 reform? Probably not many
    IPSE are only now circulating their position to many interested parties, especially clients, and highlighting the issues, especially warning of the risk of employment benefits claims. They steadfastly refused to do this in the early years and preferred to keep pushing the ideology of IBOYOA, which clearly has failed disastrously.

    Many individuals, including myself, wrote to their MP's over the years and also went to see them, but were always faced with the standard boiler plate response, of two people doing the same job should pay the same taxes, which has now changed to two people earning the same income should pay the same taxes, irrespective of their legal structure.

    So many IPSE members were active, and some were prepared to challenge the system without support from IPSE, I might say, because such support was contrary to policy at the time. Remember the old adage "a stitch in time saves nine".

    If you belong to any organisation, you would expect that organisation to represent the views of its members. Alas, this is often not the case.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maslins View Post
    Hehe, it's nice to see some sympathy for the accountants re all this, I imagine most contractors have a view on us!

    We're certainly gearing up for a rough 12 months ahead, though we haven't seen too much direct impact yet. Currently still taking on more clients than we're losing each month. We do expect that to reverse for a while though, think it's just that as of right now many clients are still in the thinking/weighing up options stage. We've been stockpiling reserves over the last year or so, and have taken on two new staff in the last couple of months...as whilst we expect it to be painful, at least in the short term it's going to be more work for us dealing with all the de-registrations/tidy ups etc.

    I don't know how many clients your accountant has...but given it sounds like they've perhaps got half a dozen staff in total, I'd anticipate number of clients would be well into the hundreds. So whilst 15 may be a bit upsetting, it shouldn't be too devastating. I appreciate if it's 15 lost this month, 20 next month, 25 the following etc then it could be a different story.

    Ignoring my own personal interests, whilst I think IR35 is rubbish (as so grey), if they're going to stick with it, I do feel this change makes sense. Hopefully after any initial (over)reaction things will settle down. I imagine the market will drift towards two types of contractors, with two very different contracts/working practices to match.
    I'm surprised at the lack of lobbying being done by companies that are affected by all the IR35 drama. It's almost like firms have just accepted it. I know Dave Chaplin is doing a lot of it but he's also leveraging off it too buy selling his consulting and IR35 shield protection, fair play I guess.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by CompoundOverload View Post
    I'm surprised at the lack of lobbying being done by companies that are affected by all the IR35 drama. It's almost like firms have just accepted it. I know Dave Chaplin is doing a lot of it but he's also leveraging off it too buy selling his consulting and IR35 shield protection, fair play I guess.
    It seems you just get back a copy the same HMRC boilerplate from everyone.

    The whole sorry thing has to fall over before anyone lifts a finger as I don't think anyone in a position of influence can foresee the consequences.

    My accountant thought it would get watered-down or aborted at the last minute, he's now having a breakdown of sorts.

  9. #19

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    Expect a lot of work in shutting down companies soon.

    And then a load more work opening new companies when everything has settled.

    Accountants' real fear should be automation.
    Cats are evil.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by coder View Post
    Problem is for IPSE to be active it also needs active members - how many people have sent a letter/email to their MP on IR35 reform? Probably not many
    Contractor writes to MP and says HEY I DON'T LIKE IR35...

    MP forwards email to HMRC...

    Doesn't take HMRC long to work why you might not like IR35...

    Your first line of defense against IR35 is not attracting attention

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