Thinking of leaving IT over IR35?

[simes]

So, IF I am told I am Inside (I will first point out I am being paid from abroad and see if there is any clear wording available to shore up that argument, and if that doesn't work...), I will likely leave in the hope that the seasoned contractors will also leave - for two to three months.

This will be the ONLY method to enforce some immediate client Thinking. The results will likely leave short term benching.

Bending over and going Brolly will only make a rod for our own backs in the long term. Some immediate, and longer lasting term, thinking is required.

If by July, if this is not working, I would actually prefer to drastically reduce the rate and look for smaller projects that might actually deliver and might actually be interesting. £200-300/day. I would not want to be party to anything that gives more tax to the HMRC and demonstrate that what they are doing and how it is being done is in any way a good idea.

Well, that was short and sweet.

I received a helpful call from some sweet soul enquiring 'if anyone has spoken to you about your contract yet?'

Knowing full well what This would be about... 'No.'

His news thudded into my day whereupon 1) Everyone is declared Inside and 2) Everyone has the option to go PAYE etc.

I offered the main fact that I am being paid from abroad, and the secondary facts that the CEST tool offered an Outside determination and the three pillars have been well and truly observed, and 'Did that offer any solace?'

'Not really 'simes'. The decision has been made. And so, would you like to go PAYE?'

And bearing in mind the above now emboldened and underlined, I said 'No. Thanks'.

Bench from March.

As an aside, I later spoke to someone within the client on the hiring side, a Dutch chap. He too is a contractor with a Dutch PSC and he said they too had a similar sounding issue in Dutch law where everyone was summarily canned. A few months later the clients had a rethink over donuts and coffee and hey, he was back in.

[DevUK]

Well, that was short and sweet.

I received a helpful call from some sweet soul enquiring 'if anyone has spoken to you about your contract yet?'

Knowing full well what This would be about... 'No.'

His news thudded into my day whereupon 1) Everyone is declared Inside and 2) Everyone has the option to go PAYE etc.

I offered the main fact that I am being paid from abroad, and the secondary facts that the CEST tool offered an Outside determination and the three pillars have been well and truly observed, and 'Did that offer any solace?'

'Not really 'simes'. The decision has been made. And so, would you like to go PAYE?'

And bearing in mind the above now emboldened and underlined, I said 'No. Thanks'.

Bench from March.

As an aside, I later spoke to someone within the client on the hiring side, a Dutch chap. He too is a contractor with a Dutch PSC and he said they too had a similar sounding issue in Dutch law where everyone was summarily canned. A few months later the clients had a rethink over donuts and coffee and hey, he was back in.

You done the right thing, good luck. I think you may need it given the current state of the market (depending on what your area of expertise is of course).

[Skint]

After 20 years of working in the industry the changes that are coming in ... I for one hope that enough contractors stick 2 fingers up to said clients... thought of going perm and becoming a number fills me with dread...So what are you planning?

I too have been contracting for 20 years. I've worked for a variety of clients some good some not so, but the current one has taken the "no determinations, no PSCs" approach. They offered perm. No thank you. They offered Agency PAYE. No thank you. They offered Umbrella at current rate plus extra to cover E'er NICs and ALevy. I thought about that one, but the risk of retrospective enquiry is too great so, er, no thank you. (So many contractors here have just rolled over though. Only two of us have stuck to our guns and said it's got to be outside or goodbye).

So, on the bench for a while, eating into the rainy-day fund, will wait for the dust to settle and see how the land lies come the summer...

[ChimpMaster]

I too have been contracting for 20 years. I've worked for a variety of clients some good some not so, but the current one has taken the "no determinations, no PSCs" approach. They offered perm. No thank you. They offered Agency PAYE. No thank you. They offered Umbrella at current rate plus extra to cover E'er NICs and ALevy. I thought about that one, but the risk of retrospective enquiry is too great so, er, no thank you. (So many contractors here have just rolled over though. Only two of us have stuck to our guns and said it's got to be outside or goodbye).

So, on the bench for a while, eating into the rainy-day fund, will wait for the dust to settle and see how the land lies come the summer...

I'm a little delirious from flu at this time, but if the client says "no determinations, no PSCs" , then isn't it the case that
- they are not saying you are within IR35
- so you should be able to continue contracting there under a pseudo-employment contract where you are paid directly, nett of taxes

Did I misunderstand?

[simes]

Well, that was short and sweet.

I received a helpful call from some sweet soul enquiring 'if anyone has spoken to you about your contract yet?'

Knowing full well what This would be about... 'No.'

His news thudded into my day whereupon 1) Everyone is declared Inside and 2) Everyone has the option to go PAYE etc.

I offered the main fact that I am being paid from abroad, and the secondary facts that the CEST tool offered an Outside determination and the three pillars have been well and truly observed, and 'Did that offer any solace?'

'Not really 'simes'. The decision has been made. And so, would you like to go PAYE?'

And bearing in mind the above now emboldened and underlined, I said 'No. Thanks'.

Bench from March.

As an aside, I later spoke to someone within the client on the hiring side, a Dutch chap. He too is a contractor with a Dutch PSC and he said they too had a similar sounding issue in Dutch law where everyone was summarily canned. A few months later the clients had a rethink over donuts and coffee and hey, he was back in.

Since the above, I tried to do the responsible thing;

1. Offer presence in IR35 meetings
2. Be available to discuss / negotiate
3. Offer the light at the end of the tunnel approach to finding solutions

Nada.

I received a mail from the Hiring Desk within client saying that which we've all heard a thousand times.

1. We (client) have not made blanket determinations
2. We are not able to discuss individual's PSC taxation status (which seems to contradict the above, but maybe not...)
3. All assignments will move forward as a PAYE with eligible benefit per Agency Workers Regulations

Blah blah blah.

I confirmed I will be leaving.

[PeterSim]

I thought the IR35 applies to all industries? or is it only IT that they are going after?

I would have thought even the politicians (including the PM) would be deemed inside IR35 because of how the work they do is already pre-determined and assigned by the client.

I hope Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid is prepared to go inside IR35! no more bird bath and wine tasting expenses for them lot!!!

[northernladuk]

I thought the IR35 applies to all industries? or is it only IT that they are going after?

I would have thought even the politicians (including the PM) would be deemed inside IR35 because of how the work they do is already pre-determined and assigned by the client.

I hope Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid is prepared to go inside IR35! no more bird bath and wine tasting expenses for them lot!!!

Inneresting

[PeterSim]

Not just them, i would think even all The Lords would be deemed inside IR35 as well. I know for a fact that they all operate personal service companies or PSC as HMRC like to call them.

[northernladuk]

Not just them, i would think even all The Lords would be deemed inside IR35 as well. I know for a fact that they all operate personal service companies or PSC as HMRC like to call them.

I don't believe Members of the Lords receive payment for their parliamentary duties but dont let that fact ruin a perfectly good rant..

[PeterSim]

They do operate behind limited companies though and do receive income related to their duties.

What about Lawyers that operate as consultants, they will also need to be deemed inside. As well as accountants that operate as external consultants, they will also need to be deemed inside.

Even lawyers that operate as partners of a law firm and receive dividends, frankly, that seems more like an inside IR35 role and they should also be forced inside.