When does SDA Matter?

[northernladuk]

There must be some skin in the game for agencies.. how can they define contractual terms and then when the client says they are not correct they just shrug their shoulders?

But it doesn't matter now. The client makes the determination. The agency may guide them as they know more than the client on the situation but ultimately it's down to the client.

In the past it was down to the contractor to do the correct diligence on the contract and have the changes made... so no real agent skin in the game.

[sim2kuk]

Red flag as in the CEST tool being flawed. I'd agree.

I don't think it's as simple as you state it there. The client must determine the role is outside, not the contractor. For key roles it's probably worth the time and effort to change the working practices and engagement methods due to the risk to the project. If the only highly skilled resources will engage IR35 then they have to change the engagement method. The other BoS guys are 10 a penny so not worth the cost. Nothing particularly wrong with that.

I think you are wrong to think some contractors will get outside, it's the roles they do, but at the end you get the same outcome they stay outside... If that makes sense.

Sorry, yes role, not contractor - typing whilst on the phone makes my mind wander - I have been (unofficially) told I am in one of those roles, but I don't really know whether to trust what is being said, or just hand in my notice. I *may* hand in my notice now, with the "security" that if the determination is made within those 2 weeks and is outside then I'll rescind the notice, or leave if they say inside (my contract and working practices are not inside so could appeal, but still). I'm still worried that even having that Inside determination will potentially have consequences down the line, even if I have looked to quit before (as it's done on the role).

Yep, CEST tool not fit for purpose, hence red flag comment, which I've told them (and sent them links to analysis on it).

[sim2kuk]

But it doesn't matter now. The client makes the determination. The agency may guide them as they know more than the client on the situation but ultimately it's down to the client.

In the past it was down to the contractor to do the correct diligence on the contract and have the changes made... so no real agent skin in the game.

This agent will only let you sign their "Outside IR35" contract...

[MHPPM]

So, is it the Client who has misled the agency, or the agency that has misled the contractor. Either way, someone has been misled to get the contractor to sign the contract...

Agreed it is total Bull - asking clients to do SDS - As if they are going to be impartial - No right of appeal, other than to same client. The client MUST have approved the agency contract or at the very least agree the main points. So either they are complicit or someone else should be on the hook and not just us poor bandits!

[sim2kuk]

Agreed it is total Bull - Same as employee for task purpose - asking clients to do SDA - As if they are going to be impartial - No right of appeal, other than to same client. The client MUST have approved the agency contract or at the very least agree the main points. So either they are complicit or someone else should be on the hook and not just us poor bandits!

Which is where the legal question is valid - surely someone has been misleading other parties, and there is a case to answer?

[MHPPM]

Which is where the legal question is valid - surely someone has been misleading other parties, and there is a case to answer?

When you take on a contract you are not going into sit with the client and run through the terms and conditions... especially in a large company you wouldn't even find the person to ask!

[jamesbrown]

asking clients to do SDA

I know there's a lot of acronyms to keep track of, but you've been corrected on this several times (unless you are making a point about something different?). It makes it hard to know what you're talking about.

SDS = Status Determination Statement.
MoO = Mutuality of Obligation (I assume this is what you mean by MOE)

[ladymuck]

Agreed it is total Bull - asking clients to do SDA - As if they are going to be impartial - No right of appeal, other than to same client. The client MUST have approved the agency contract or at the very least agree the main points. So either they are complicit or someone else should be on the hook and not just us poor bandits!

What's an SDA?

[northernladuk]

I know there's a lot of acronyms to keep track of, but you've been corrected on this several times (unless you are making a point about something different?). It makes it hard to know what you're talking about.

SDS = Status Determination Statement.
MoO = Mutuality of Obligation (I assume this is what you mean by MOE)

I did point this out in the 2nd post. Shows how much notice he's taking of the advice....

[jamesbrown]

I did point this out in the 2nd post. Shows how much notice he's taking of the advice....

Yup. And several times before that too.