When does SDA Matter? When does SDA Matter?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 25
  1. #1

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28

    Default When does SDA Matter?

    I am expecting an SDS shortly and for it to be inside. Does it matter how it's worded in terms of tense - i.e. "we consider your role to be inside"

    Or is it only relevant from 6th April?

    Thanks
    Last edited by MHPPM; 5th February 2020 at 22:31.

  2. #2

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    44,608

    Default

    It's a SDS. Status Determination Statement. It will be an official statement on a role that required after April.

    It does however blow your current current self determination out of the water if nothing much has changed. You say outside, they say no, it will be inside. More or less admitting you've been inside all along.

    Happy days for HMRC.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  3. #3

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    It's a SDS. Status Determination Statement. It will be an official statement on a role that required after April.

    It does however blow your current current self determination out of the water if nothing much has changed. You say outside, they say no, it will be inside. More or less admitting you've been inside all along.

    Happy days for HMRC.
    If the agency who is now providing the SDS, also advised when the contract was taken that it was Outside IR35, but are now moving it Inside IR35, is there a potential for legal proceedings against said agency do we think, to cover the tax/penalties?

  4. #4

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    44,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sim2kuk View Post
    If the agency who is now providing the SDS, also advised when the contract was taken that it was Outside IR35, but are now moving it Inside IR35, is there a potential for legal proceedings against said agency do we think, to cover the tax/penalties?
    The client makes the determination. The agency is just passing it on to you.

    No there isn't. In their opinion it might have been but IR35 is your tax problem not theirs. It might well have been at the time and the goal posts has moved on them as well as us... . But either way agent doesn't do the SDS and it's up to you to make the determination so no potential at all.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  5. #5

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    The client makes the determination. The agency is just passing it on to you.

    No there isn't. In their opinion it might have been but IR35 is your tax problem not theirs. It might well have been at the time and the goal posts has moved on them as well as us... . But either way agent doesn't do the SDS and it's up to you to make the determination so no potential at all.
    It's very odd what is happening at our FTSE 100. The agency are advising the Client using the CEST tool (which is a red flag to start with for me), and all determinations are being done at the moment. My contract ends at the end of March before my final invoice gets paid. However, it sounds like what they may do is announce Outside for those on very important projects, and Inside on others, which is odd, and they'll take that potential HMRC risk for the important contractors.

  6. #6

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    It's a SDS. Status Determination Statement. It will be an official statement on a role that required after April.

    It does however blow your current current self determination out of the water if nothing much has changed. You say outside, they say no, it will be inside. More or less admitting you've been inside all along.

    Happy days for HMRC.
    Thanks, what do you mean if nothing else is changed? I expect there will be a new contract ROS, MOE etc

  7. #7

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sim2kuk View Post
    If the agency who is now providing the SDS, also advised when the contract was taken that it was Outside IR35, but are now moving it Inside IR35, is there a potential for legal proceedings against said agency do we think, to cover the tax/penalties?
    There must be some skin in the game for agencies.. how can they define contractual terms and then when the client says they are not correct they just shrug their shoulders?

  8. #8

    Still gathering requirements...


    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHPPM View Post
    There must be some skin in the game for agencies.. how can they define contractual terms and then when the client says they are not correct they just shrug their shoulders?
    So, is it the Client who has misled the agency, or the agency that has misled the contractor. Either way, someone has been misled to get the contractor to sign the contract...

  9. #9

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    44,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHPPM View Post
    Thanks, what do you mean if nothing else is changed? I expect there will be a new contract ROS, MOE etc
    But if you are doing the same work in the same way. If you start a different gig doing something different they can't argue the inside determination relates to the outside one. If you are doing the same it's easy.. And then there is a massive grey area where you doing the same'ish under a new contract that's changed a little.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  10. #10

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    44,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sim2kuk View Post
    It's very odd what is happening at our FTSE 100. The agency are advising the Client using the CEST tool (which is a red flag to start with for me), and all determinations are being done at the moment. My contract ends at the end of March before my final invoice gets paid. However, it sounds like what they may do is announce Outside for those on very important projects, and Inside on others, which is odd, and they'll take that potential HMRC risk for the important contractors.
    Red flag as in the CEST tool being flawed. I'd agree.

    I don't think it's as simple as you state it there. The client must determine the role is outside, not the contractor. For key roles it's probably worth the time and effort to change the working practices and engagement methods due to the risk to the project. If the only highly skilled resources will engage IR35 then they have to change the engagement method. The other BoS guys are 10 a penny so not worth the cost. Nothing particularly wrong with that.

    I think you are wrong to think some contractors will get outside, it's the roles they do, but at the end you get the same outcome they stay outside... If that makes sense.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •